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Has Frank Mir Lost His White Whale?

A few weeks prior to his fight with Shane Carwin at UFC 111, Frank Mir compared Brock Lesnar to Moby Dick due to Lesnar being big, white, and according to Frank, a dick. Unfortunately for Mir, he may not have come to the end of the famed novel where Captain Ahab is dragged down to depths of the ocean by the whale, and in the process, loses everything.

Many in the MMA world were wondering if Mir had completely overlooked his upcoming opponent Shane Carwin leading up to the brutal knockout defeat suffered by the former UFC champion. While Mir came out and stated the he was not obsessed with Lesnar, his change in physique and demeanor pointed to an obsession. Since the loss at UFC 100 Mir has consistently spoke about Lesnar and continued with what could be perceived as an obsession going into the Cheick Kongo fight; taking most of the time on the Countdown show talking about Lesnar, and wanting to rip Kongo’s arm off as a statement to Lesnar.

Last Saturday, Mir broke a cardinal sin: Never overlook an opponent.

After months of mentally hyping himself for a potential rubber match with Lesnar, Mir was on the octagon canvas with medical officials, refs, and his own corner looming over him. It was a familiar image to those who saw the carnage that Lesnar unleashed on Mir’s face at UFC 100; a bigger and far stronger opponent had put Mir against the cage and did what Ian Freeman did to him in 2002. Shane Carwin had cemented himself as Lesnar’s newest threat, while Frank Mir saw his dreams go up in smoke.

That is where the obsession of Mir begins. He never lost his heavyweight championship; the belt was stripped after his motorcycle accident. For nearly two years, Mir sat on the sidelines as Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski played a never-ending “Hot Potato” with his title belt.

Unfortunately his return was a disaster when Marcio Cruz quickly put Mir on his back and pounded Mir out. Then Mir was given what many considered to be a “gimme fight” against Dan Christison, while his appearance and physique looked closer to Tank Abbott than the original in-shape Mir. Although Mir managed to win the fight, it was a nasty, sloppy affair, as the once dominant Mir seemed to be long gone. Any momentum Mir may have had from the “victory” was quickly derailed following a devastating beatdown suffered at the hands of natural light heavyweight, Brandon Vera. A defeat that had Mir’s own wife verbally breaking him down.

‘Randy Couture, didn’t he get his ass kicked by Josh Barnett embarrassingly bad? Now look at Randy Couture. Was he a bitch like this? I wonder if he was a bitch like this,’ Mir quoted his wife as saying in an interview with MMA Weekly. ‘I wonder if I talked to Randy, I wonder if I could be his woman, and not your (expletive) woman.’

Fortunately, Brock Lesnar proved to be Mir’s golden ticket out of the MMA dog house, and the controversial victory for the submission specialist in the pair’s first meeting took Mir from being an opening act on the card to a potential main event star.

When the situation between the UFC and Randy Couture was at it’s darkest, Mir stepped in to coach the next season of the Ultimate Fighter and shocked the world by finishing Minotauro Nogueria. A month earlier, Lesnar wins the heavyweight championship by pounding out Randy Couture in his return bout. The rematch between the two does record numbers, but Lesnar smashes Mir in the second round, thus preventing Mir from getting his title back.

A third fight between the two would be the main event, and would most likely draw anywhere from 850,000-1,000,000 buys based of the fact that it’s the third fight between the two. Mir and Lesnar would probably get a cut of the PPV revenue, and every major MMA sponsor would be willing to pay a good amount of money to have their name of Mir’s shorts. Belt or not on the line, Mir is looking at a nice amount of money to raise his family on and if managed financially, Mir could retire by 35. At the age of 30, Mir can still be a competitive fighter, but the motorcycle crash took away some of his best years and he will still feel the pain from the accident despite years of rehab and the major surgery to put Mir back together.

Is Mir’s career at the same low after UFC 65? Not at all, but if he doesn’t make major changes to his career, one more loss to a Cain Velasquez , Junior Dos Santos, or Roy Nelson might send Mir in that direction.

Can a third Lesnar/Mir fight occur? If Lesnar loses to Carwin, and Mir wins a few fights than a rematch could be justifiably booked for a main event. His white whale isn’t gone, but it’s a long chase to catch up with the whale.

49 COMMENTS
  • Johnnybigone says:

    Unfortunately for Frank, working out doesn’t somehow magically bless you with the the ridiculous physiques Carwin and Lesnar have. I mean he’s still a big dude but it’s just not the same.

  • cocoonofhorror says:

    Mere sucks, and he’s a tool bag. couldnt care less what happens to him.

  • Makington says:

    I didn’t think he completely overlooked Carwin, it’s just his gameplans that need tweaking. Obviously he made it no secret that his ultimate motivation was to fight Brock again, but I think also that the fight would have gone down much the same way even if he hadn’t been obsessing about Brock. Of course, the Brock fight brought some good changes to Mir’s game. He showed more heart and almost 20 pounds of muscle along with vastly improved striking. But at his core I think Mir just takes too many needless shots. Just like his fight with Ian Freeman, Mir took a lot of unnecessary shots to the face while trying to get a better position. Carwin was feeding him bricks while they were up against the cage and it seemed like Mir didn’t even try to stop them because he was hoping to get a better position out of it. Like when he was trying so long to get a leg lock on Freeman while taking numerous blows that eventually stopped him. Against a guy like Carwin, you shouldn’t be taking even ONE shot that you don’t have to and he took about 20. I think if he worried a little less about positions and more about blocking those punches then he would have a chance against these behemoth fighters so I guess we’ll see the next time he comes out if he fixes what was wrong and tries to get back once more to Brock.

    On the plus hand though he might not mention Brock 60 times per interview. Maybe only 30 now.

  • slammy862 says:

    If mir loses his motivation he will look like butterbean within the year.

    If he still carries around all that hate with no way of dumping it, it will turn into self-loathing and then you gots problems, jack.

    I think mir should quit mma for a while and maybe try some yoga or pilates. Something where he doesn’t have to worry about people holding him down and beating 5 different kinds of turtle crap outta him.

  • themml says:

    I am a big Mir fan and I was very dissapointed with the Carwin fight. It seemed he didnt realy put an offense together in the fight. It seeemd like he wanted to test his new size and strength against Carwin and then he did as stated before take a lot of shots for no reason looking for a better position.. He needed to really try to strike with him more and throw some kicks while they werent against the cage. It isnt hard to knock someone out when they arent moving there head and their body is stuck in one position. Mir probably needs to do a camp with a world class heavyweight wrester instead of someone like Whitehead. I think MIr can beat all the other heavyweights in the division if he gets his mind in the current fight which he has shown in the past when he is focussed on the fight he is in he can do major things.

  • inkythewinky says:

    mir is like the guy that we are all pulling for but know in the back of our head he could never do it, if he rematched carwin i think he would get knocked out again

  • Dufresne says:

    Mir may have been training boxing, but his lack of movement is pathetic. I used to like Mir before he got all stalker creepy about Brock, but even back then he didn’t move around at all. After the shots and maulings he’s taken in the past few years I have to wonder if he isn’t getting to that gatekeeper stage; good enough to be a threat, big enough name to make it a meaningful fight, but on the border of the good and the elite.

  • Guthookd says:

    If Carwin beats Brock we will see Brock/Mir III no doubt about it. I guarantee it.

  • bigbadjohn says:

    You guys are pathetic. IF HE CAN ONLY GET HIS HEAD STRAIGHT IF HE CAN JUST FOCUS ON HIS WRESTLING.. WAA F*CKING WAAA. Mir does not have what it takes to be the champ. So all you wankers who got bullied in High school and have emotional ties to Franks revenge against the big meanie Brock. Give your head a shake, hes a 2nd rate heavyweight. maybe pray he moves to 205

  • TheZoomZoomKid says:

    Mir’s a joke. Disgrace to the sport. Hopefully he never fights again out of shame.

  • moosebaby02 says:

    who cares???? he bit off more than he can chew.
    mir fans….who all says he is smart cause he is setting up for the big pay day with brock and all the money and na na na na booooo to him. I love self appointed tuff guys who gets their mouths shut

  • bigbadjohn says:

    the Terell Owens of MMA. Somehow manages to keep a group of fans who refuse to recognize his douche, diva ways and his sandpaper personality and who promise if he gets in the right situation where his head can be straight that he will be on top once again. So Mir fans dont wait for frank to come out of the woodwork with a new angle of attack for redemption. call him on his bullshit and prosper as MMA fans

  • themml says:

    It sounds like a few of you would love to be in bed with Lesnar who really hasnt showed much MMA techniclly. He has showed a lot of wrestling and some boxing that isnt real technical. Lesnar is a baby about shit too, like when he got tapped out. Most epople that I have seen cheer for Lesnar have no true idea about MMA or who the hell he really is or what he has done in his life.

    And for the record I was never pushed around by anyone in high school and have no complex about bigger people being a big bad bully.

  • TheZoomZoomKid says:

    It sounds like a few of you would love to be in bed with Lesnar who really hasnt showed much MMA techniclly.He has showed a lot of wrestling and some boxing that isnt real technical.Lesnar is a baby about shit too, like when he got tapped out.Most epople that I have seen cheer for Lesnar have no true idea about MMA or who the hell he really is or what he has done in his life.And for the record I was never pushed around by anyone in high school and have no complex about bigger people being a big bad bully.  

    Mir talked way more trash than Lesnar did after that first match, even though he beat a guy whose fighting his second match. Reasonable people can see that all the douche things Lesnar did was a reaction to Mir’s constant bull trashtalk. His UFC 100 rant was completely justified (except the Bud Light diss, but if you drink Bud Light you’re wimp anyways).

  • Austin says:

    Nah, Mir and Lesnar will both be facing losses and they’ll need a warmup comeback fight: Lesnar Vs. Mir III.

    That’s because my man shane carwin is going to fist rape brock lesnar’s chin.

  • Guthookd says:

    So, did he break a Cardinal Rule or did he commit a Cardinal Sin….one or the other AUTHOR!

  • bigbadjohn says:

    It sounds like a few of you would love to be in bed with Lesnar who really hasnt showed much MMA techniclly. He has showed a lot of wrestling and some boxing that isnt real technical. Lesnar is a baby about shit too, like when he got tapped out. Most epople that I have seen cheer for Lesnar have no true idea about MMA or who the hell he really is or what he has done in his life. And for the record I was never pushed around by anyone in high school and have no complex about bigger people being a big bad bully.  (Quote)

    what you’re mistaking as love for Brock is really just a level of “fed-up”-ness with Frank Mir’s talk. Funny thing is though ‘themml’, Brock who hasn’t shown much MMA skills “technically” just whupped one of the apparently “most well rounded” MMA practicioners in Mir. And the legend that is Randy Couture. And get this – he’s had 5 fights! WHAAAA, you say. But how??? Size strength and WRESTLING. Sooooo… the karate kid doesn’t win in the end like the movie, it’s not David and Goliath, it’s the new heavyweight division. and like any division, Wrestling is a major factor, a major MIXED MARTIAL ART factor. Now watch as Brock, Carwin, Cain and a select few drag you Mir fans kicking and screaming into the new era.

    But I’d still like to see Frank rip Anderson Silva’s arm off.

  • themml says:

    There becomes a point when size can overcome skill even when size has little skill

  • bigbadjohn says:

    Hahahahahaha. talk about a Mir bum buddy, themml. Skill? you want skill? how about a 105-3 collegiant wrestling record in a weight div where every opponent was as big as Brock. yours and a lot of Lesnar haters ignorance makes me laugh. i guess GSPs wrestling is just a matter of size difference too

  • Rece Rock says:

    Wow… the comments are pretty crazy on this thread… hate him or love him Mir is the fifth guy in the picture still folks and a string of 2 wins puts him right around where he was to begin with…
    He helped in making the HW division as awesome as it is now I don’t think we should write the guy off… but thats just my opinion.

  • king mah mah says:

    I don’t think Mir needs a few wins before he fights Brock again. Maybe one or two. If Brock loses then I say let em have their rubber match.

    And when did Mir stop being a force to reckon with? He’s the only one who beat Brock and he just fought for the title last year! What the hell is wrong with you Lesnar nuthuggers?!

  • Angry Mike says:

    Guys like Carwin and Lesnar are big, quick and so strong that just one punch can end the fight. Heavy weights like Mir who have been in the game for 5 or 10 years haven’t faced fighters like them. I’m not sure how you’d defend them, but no way can you afford to get pressed against the cage and immobilized. I guess you’d have to stay in the center of the octagon and keep moving no matter what.

  • Makington says:

    So bigbadjohn, you think Lesnar won all his fights out of pure skill and technical mastery of the fight game? I find that ridiculous. If I were Lesnar, I wouldn’t even be that proud of myself to beat Randy Couture in a fight that Randy was winning to many people and who also underweighed by about 60 pounds. Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way a Mir fanboy. I’m not even a fan of Mir. I also recognize that Lesnar is a tremendous athlete and I’ll give him all the due he’s earned. He’s a powerful guy, a great wrestler, and has heavy hands. However, all of these are directly affected by his enormous size. Damn right he schooled Mir(twice in my mind), Herring, Couture, and the judoka fella whose name I forget, but the fact is he schooled them with pure size and power.

    I wholeheartedly believe Lesnar could be the best heavyweight the UFC will ever see by the end of his career, but where each legend has their prime skill, Lesnar is his dominating figure. GSP has wrestling, Silva has striking, and Lesnar has behemoth size and power. Hell, Lesnar damn near dwarfed Carwin when they stood by eachother and people talk about how huge Carwin is.

    When you start throwing insults around saying how everyone is just a Mir nut hugger and how Lesnar is the real thing, it makes you just seem like a Lesnar nut hugger. I’m no big fan of Mir, but I still like having an intelligent conversation about whatever happens to be on this site, and it’s an article directly about him, so what do you expect?

  • Makington says:

    Btw, good point Angry Mike about behemoth HW’s still being new. There’s a blueprint so far in MMA how to beat different martial arts and tactics but nothing yet for such big fighters. Like if someone is a pure striker, take them down. If someone only wrestles, keep your stance low and don’t throw leg kicks.

    Such huge heavyweights are still relatively new to MMA and there isn’t a blueprint yet and how the hell to beat them. In just a couple years, the HW division has gone from easily the worst to the one I’m most excited about right now.

  • chiggs says:

    Mir need not worry, sure get got beat by carwin, but after carwin, knocks out lesnar, mir and lesnar will have to fight again, assuming mir can win against his next opponent, whoever that may be. but carwin will knock out lesnar, giving mir the fight hes wanted all along.

  • yhknq says:

    i don’t see mir fighting for the title again
    the way the heavy division is stacked right now
    i cant picture him beating 2 contenders in a row
    he is still a great fighter but i don’t believe he is
    athletic enough to compete with cain and junior

  • moosebaby02 says:

    I don’t think Mir needs a few wins before he fights Brock again. Maybe one or two. If Brock loses then I say let em have their rubber match. And when did Mir stop being a force to reckon with? He’s the only one who beat Brock and he just fought for the title last year! What the hell is wrong with you Lesnar nuthuggers?!  (Quote)

    be honest….WHEN was Mir really a force to be rekon with?????

  • moosebaby02 says:

    and just cause i cant stand the world is mine as clown mir dosent mean i in anyways care for brock or a brock nutthugger. i only hug Carwins, Nate The Great or GSP nutts

  • moosebaby02 says:

    ass clown

  • Dufresne says:

    Mir was a force in the UFC HW division back before he broke his leg. Granted at the time all that meant was you had to beat Tank, Wes Sims, and (the only real competition at the time) Tim Sylvia. So by today’s standards, no he was never a real force.

  • danw84 says:

    Saying Mir sucks doesn’t mean you love Lesnar.

    Mir does suck.

  • Mad_Hatter_XX says:

    Mir has talent but, it’s the mental game that gets him beat. Seemed he thought he could take what Carwin had to offer and would just wait for an opening. Same with Lesnar. “Maybe if I let this 280 pound guy mash my face into hamburger long enough, his arms will get sore then I get good position”

    A focused Mir would be a tough fight for any HW in the UFC. I just wonder if that Frank Mir even exists.

    Side note: What happens if Lesnar wins? Everyone had already crowned Carwin champ I just wonder if anyone thought that might not happen.

  • bigbadjohn says:

    Bullshit Carwins been named champ already. the vegas line has brock favored and for good reason. It will be similar to Brock and Heath, but heaths a pride vet with a big heart, and carwins never been out of 1st

  • Mad_Hatter_XX says:

    I’m not talking about the Vegas line.I’m speaking about the general opinion of most message board posters (I didn’t say ALL) I do see alot of “Carwin is gonna smash Brock” and blah blah posts or the “face rape with fist” comment above..and that very may well happen.

    Just thinking out loud that there may well be mass disappointment if Carwin doesn’t win. And I may be eating crow if he does win, but I think Brock finds a way to win and shows people he deserves to be champ.

    If he does lose I can’t say I would be terribly interested in Lesnar/Mir III but, I would still put money on it happening

  • inkythewinky says:

    read all the posts and just a few quick notes, when did “nut hugger” become the cool new thing to say? kinda like “epic” and “fail” this lame internet slang is clown shoes, and i can understand liking any fighter but to down someone for liking a fighter that u don’t care for is middle school, if u like for example: bisping, i dont think anybody should be insulting you , what is the point, they like who they like leave em alone.. u trying to coax em into believing what u do? where is all this hatred for brock/mir/carwin and whoever comming from? would u prefer it if they never fought again? why all the haters? i love mma, i like all the fighters i love watching the fights, i may not care for certain styles that some fighters use but im not going to trash talk anybody about it…. sorry for the heart 2 heart moment but i like this site and i dont want to see it become an arena for calling each other “duche bags” like sherdog …

  • danw84 says:

    Are you saying you don’t like Bisping????

  • king mah mah says:

    @moosebaby02- Mir was a force when he beat Brock’s ass in their first bout. Mir was a force the first time he held the belt, and he is STILL a threat to the belt no matter who is holding it. Kiss my ass bitches! Mir is STILL in there!

  • king mah mah says:

    Thumbs it up bitches!!!!

  • mmajosh says:

    I can’t stand how Mir has such negative comments about everyone (i.e. calling lesnar a dick). This is Mir typical demeanor, but I believe that mir is probably the biggest dick in professional athletics. I would almost consider the Diaz brothers to be more gentlemanly than Mir. I think he needs an attitude check. As long as he has this attitude, i hope everytime he shows up to fight he get Lesnared or Carwined again and again :)

  • bigbadjohn says:

    AMEN.

  • moosebaby02 says:

    Bullshit Carwins been named champ already. the vegas line has brock favored and for good reason. It will be similar to Brock and Heath, but heaths a pride vet with a big heart, and carwins never been out of 1st  (Quote)

    if you mean Heath quitting MMA to do C movies has big heart then how come everyone had so much shit about Rampage???
    and since when winning all you fights in the 1st round dosent mean you dont have heart

  • moosebaby02 says:

    @moosebaby02- Mir was a force when he beat Brock’s ass in their first bout. Mir was a force the first time he held the belt, and he is STILL a threat to the belt no matter who is holding it. Kiss my ass bitches! Mir is STILL in there!  (Quote)

    when did mir “BEAT BROCKS ASS”???
    if you meant a lucky heal hook on a very very green MMA fighter then
    OH SHIT YOUR RIGHT

  • king mah mah says:

    @moosebaby02- There is no luck in submitting someone no matter how “green” you think they are.

    When you have someone in so much pain that they start smacking your ass begging you to stop I call that beating someones ass.

    I guess it was luck when Mir broke Tim’s arm too. OH SHIT I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT! From now on every submission will be considered luck.

  • bigbadjohn says:

    I didnt say a thing about Carwins heart. I just imagine it will be a multiple round lay n pray similar to the Heath fight, or GSP vs Alves if you prefer. atleast thats what i expect from a Div 1 champ wrestler against a Div 2

  • bigbadjohn says:

    I call it luck when youre getting your ass GnP’d to hell and the ref chooses to stand the fight up without warning. i also consider it luck when you escape a fight so one sided like this (with a win) because of a junior mistake made by the dominating fighter. ya, thats LUCK

  • moosebaby02 says:

    gettting ready to watch tuff on Spike and UFC Unleashed is on.
    Has anyone metioned Mir vs no steph infection Nog 2??
    I would watch that.

  • danw84 says:

    I didnt say a thing about Carwins heart. I just imagine it will be a multiple round lay n pray similar to the Heath fight, or GSP vs Alves if you prefer. atleast thats what i expect from a Div 1 champ wrestler against a Div 2  

    Where do you come to that idea from? When has Carwin done that? Lesnar may have once, but he hasn’t again.

    Just because Carwin hasn’t ever done it, doesn’t give you any right to say he still might.

  • Dufresne says:

    Where do you come to that idea from? When has Carwin done that? Lesnar may have once, but he hasn’t again.Just because Carwin hasn’t ever done it, doesn’t give you any right to say he still might.  

    I think what he’s saying is that Lesnar’s best gameplan would be to come out and use his superior wrestling. Yeah, Carwin is a hell of a wrestler, but you have to admit there is a difference in competition between Division I and Division II collegiate wrestling. Following that logic, Brock has the advantage on the ground and anyone that thinks standing with Carwin is a good idea either has incredible standup and movement themselves (not Brock) or is stupid (also, not Brock).

  • elkymbo says:

    when did “nut hugger” become the cool new thing to say?

    Dunno but how about knob gobbler? Or pillow biter? Or vegemite driller?

    Just a few suggestions.

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