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Shogun Robbed In California: Rua batters Machida en route to unanimous decision loss at UFC 104

lyoto_machida-025In what is likely to go down in history as one of the most severe miscarriages of justice in the sport, Lyoto Machida was systematically dissected on the feet at the hands of Mauricio “Shogun” Rua during UFC 104 on his way to miraculously retaining the UFC light heavyweight championship.

Formerly the least hit fighter in UFC history, Machida suffered a severe reaction to the powerful leg kicks of Shogun that forced the typically elusive Brazilian champion to suffer a massive outbreak of welts and bruises to the thighs when it was all said and done. Rua utilized his paralyzing leg kicks to upset the rhythm of “The Dragon” that the karate master had employed so well in previous bouts.

Shogun beat Machida at what Machida does best; He took him out of his game by wreaking havoc to his tempo and gameplan while employing his own.

In the end it was Machida who left the Octagon battered and bruised. Rest assured that Lyoto will be icing the bulk of his body for a large chunk of tomorrow, while Shogun will be icing his shins more than anything else.

Both men know who won that bout deep down. Machida will say that he feels like he won the fight, but he knows better, and we know better: Shogun is the people’s light heavyweight champion.

Cain Velasquez put a major league beatdown on Ben Rothwell that likely had him wishing he was back in the IFL, taking the much larger brawler to the canvas at will and turning his face into hamburger before the pummeling was inevitably called to an end.

In what could easily be seen as an early stoppage by referee Steve Mazagatti, the bout was waved off as Rothwell was attempting to rise to his feet. If anything Mazagatti did more of an injustice to Velasquez than he did to Rothwell, being that he took away what was sure to be a decisive finish from Cain in a matter of seconds or minutes. Big Ben was already a wrap at that point.

Joe Stevenson improved upon his recent decision victory over Nate Diaz by stopping Spencer Fisher this evening via TKO. Fisher did a good job fending off the takedown in the early goings before being dragged to the mat and secured into the crucifix position, where a shower of Joe-Daddy elbows sealed the deal.

The second round stoppage victory over the always dangerous Fisher is that much more impressive due to the fact that Spencer was coming off of a three fight win streak in the Octagon coming into tonight’s contest. It seems likely that Stevenson may be just a win or two away from another bid at championship glory in the UFC.

Anthony Johnson basically got away with an assault charge tonight as he mugged his much smaller opponent, Yoshiyuki Yoshida, in just 41 seconds. Rushing across the Octagon like a man possessed, “Rumble” threw a flurry of punches at Yoshida early in the first before a brief clinch precluded the huge right hand that left the physically outmatched Japanese fighter in an unsurprising heap.

Ryan Bader fought the perfect fight against one of the UFC’s most dangerous submission artists in Eric “Red” Schafer, taking full advantage of his sizable wrestling advantage to keep the fight standing for the bulk of the fight, winning in the exchanges and mixing in the occasional takedown on his way to remaining undefeated in his professional fighting career.

A full list of the results from UFC 104 are listed below:

Lyoto Machida def. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua via unanimous decision (48-47, 48-47, 48-47)

Cain Velasquez def. Ben Rothwell via TKO – Round 2

Gleison Tibau def. Josh Neer via unanimous decision (30-27, 30-27, 29-28)

Joe Stevenson def. Spencer Fisher via TKO – Round 2

Anthony Johnson def. Yoshiyuki Yoshida via knockout – Round 1

Ryan Bader defeats Eric Schafer by unanimous decision (30-27, 29-26, 30-27)

Pat Barry def. Antoni Hardonk by TKO – Round 2

Chael Sonnen def. Yushin Okami via unanimous decision (30-27, 30-27, 30-27)

Jorge Rivera def. Rob Kimmons via TKO – Round 3

Kyle Kingsbury def. Razak Al-Hassan via split decision (29-28, 28-29, 29-28)

Stefan Struve def. Chase Gormley via submission (triangle choke) – Round 1

105 COMMENTS
  • king mah mah says:

    This is THE BIGGEST dissapointment of my mma following! Shogun obviously!, did more than enough to take Machida’s title. But instead people….who were obviously paid off, decided that this guy who drinks his own piss should retain the belt! FUCK THIS SHIT!!!!

  • Makington says:

    Well done Cory. Too many reporters agree with everything that goes on because they don’t want to call themself out in front of everyone and risk getting chewed out.

    Way to stand up for the fighter by challenging the UFC’s scoring.

  • Makington says:

    By the way, nice comment about Anthony getting away with an assault charge LOL.

  • David Andrest says:

    Again, this has nothing to do with the UFC. the judges are appointed by the CSAC.

  • edub says:

    Edit: Joe daddy stopped him in the second man.

  • Makington says:

    I didn’t mean it as literal as you took it. I meant the UFC in general. Scoring done in the UFC, not that Dana specifically was whispering in their ear.

  • king mah mah says:

    Yes THANK YOU Cory! I didn’t actually read the article because I was so pissed off! Thank you for being brave enough to say what everybody else was thinking! Which I know can be hard to do in journalism. Thanks again.

  • BillyWarhol says:

    Yeah that Decision was Disgusting! Shogun Won it handily!! Remindz me of Boxing + all the Ridiculous Bullshit Judging that went on there over the years. Hammill losing to Bisping was bad enuf but this is Disgraceful.

    At least the Top Contenders do Faceoff in the UFC + the Champ does put his Belt on the line which sadly was a Rare occurrence in Boxing.

    Ya WON SHOGUN!!!

  • Makington says:

    In my opinion this was worse than Hamill/Bisping.

    Atleast Bisping thought he won, along with one of his fans out there. I wish there were things that could be done about this, but sadly there isn’t really.

  • Vogairian says:

    A few things:

    1. This was a terrible decision. I had Rua 3 rounds to 2, but I could have seen it going 4-1 to him pretty easily.

    2. It wasn’t fixed. Anyone who honestly thinks that makes me sad.

    3. Luckily Dana agrees with us and said there will be a rematch.

  • cocoonofhorror says:

    thank you for telling it like it is Brady, much appreciated.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    “Again, this has nothing to do with the UFC. the judges are appointed by the CSAC.”

    I can understand you not wanting to say what you really think. You need to have a good relationship with the UFC in order to get interviews and stuff. If you ask me the whole thing stinks of corruption, not bad calls but obvious corruption. If you watched Kimbo’s fights in Elite you will know it is not the first time that officials have been…”swayed”.
    By the way Okami ya know the game plan you had in rd 1, it didn’t work. So why the f*ck would you do it in rd 2 only to lose that rd and then do the same in rd 3? Did you want to win, because you knew you lost 1 then 2 and did nothing to rectify it in rd 3. Hello Okami anyone home.

  • BiG BaD BuLL says:

    I am forced to renege my personal opinion. in the cain fight, i was upset regarding the early stoppage (not gonna lie, had money on rothwell) but you’re right cory…cain had him beat. just finished watching the press conference. for the second time, when addressed with the “do you think you won” inquiry, machida responded with” the judges said i did.” He knows. As a former contender myself, my heart goes out to both of these athletes. Shogun won (but lost) and machida… well, a win is win, but no true competitor wants to win a fight like that. most ( myself included) would rather lose and say “i’ll come back better” than have to defend a victory.

  • Makington says:

    I thought Chael looked just as good as Okami bad Logic. When Goldberg was saying how it might be because he lost his passport earlier I actually laughed pretty hard. Goldberg is usually a fine commentator but every now and again he just says something that have me contemplating if he’s legally retarded.

    But Chael’s stand up was looking extra crisp. The way he was changing levels with his strikes and really putting his body into them would be hard for anyone.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Vogairian: A few things:1.This was a terrible decision. I had Rua 3 rounds to 2, but I could have seen it going 4-1 to him pretty easily.2.It wasn’t fixed.Anyone who honestly thinks that makes me sad.3. Luckily Dana agrees with us and said there will be a rematch.

    His (Dana’s) hand has been forced! outrage is everywhere. No rematch buddy. Shogun WON!
    Please name the rds Machida won. I have it 5-0 with rds 1 and 2 being closest. No take downs, Shogun was more aggressive, controlled the octagon better, landed more strikes, attempted more strikes, did more damage in every rd.

  • edbuzz says:

    I thought Shogun was robbed tonight. Cecil Peoples was also one of the refs of the Michael Bisping/Matt Hamill fight a few years ago where Matt Hamill got robbed too.

    If I were ruler of the world I’d have all three of those judges whipped until they passed out.

    Machida knows Rua won the fight. Now he has to look at his friends lie to his face and tell him he won the fight. He has to be ashamed, not of losing, but of carrying on the farce that he believes he won. He feels kind of like Apollo Creed in the original Rocky.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    “I thought Chael looked just as good as Okami bad Logic.”
    What are you saying here?????
    I said he just did the same lackluster thing for 3 losing rds and you say this. He did nothing to improve his fortune for 3 rds. Perhaps I would make a better corner man than you if you were happy just doing the same bad game plan to a 30-27UD loss.

  • Cory Brady says:

    edub: Edit: Joe daddy stopped him in the second man.

    Good lookin out edub, thanks man

  • Makington says:

    Nope, I was complimenting Chael, not looking happily on Okami. I was saying as terrible as Okami was fighting, Chael was fighting on the opposite end of the spectrum. Which is me saying that I thought Chael was fighting a great fight. I agree Okami didn’t do one thing right during the fight, but Chael really surprised me with how well he overwhelmed Yushin.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    O.K he did look good or at least improved. Great wrestler with improving stand up is dangerous. Koscheck is a prime example.

  • Jstew3785 says:

    Worst decision I have ever seen. The only round I gave Machida was the 3rd, all the other Shogun clearly won IMO. Can’t wait for the rematch. Any more questions about Shogun’s cardio?
    Also, I gladly eat my words about the Okami-Sonnen fight. I had posted before that it would be the most boring fight this year, but that was hardly the case.

  • AK47 says:

    Seems fightmetric came cleanly down on the side of Rua as well:

    http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

    Just goes to show, if it ends up in the judges’ hands, it could be anybody’s night, so don’t let it get that far. Wish there was a way to making judging better, but I really don’t think there’s much to do without it ending up a total farce like a olympic boxing.

  • BigDave says:

    Ok, this decision has me scratching my head.I had the fight 3-1 for Rua and called the fourth round even. If there was ever a case for a revamped judging system. But onto the posatives of this fight. Shogun looked really good and although not the pride Rua a very close representative of his past.

    As I have been saying for months on here. Cain is the top HW in the ufc. He tossed a guy who was probably 280 when he entered the ring like he was a LW. The only problem I had with the stopage is that I was looking forward to the KO that was clearly comming. Lesnar better enjoy his last title defence win against Carwin because Cain is going to take it away from him.

  • dvsone says:

    I love MMA, I love UFC, and it breaks my heart to see what happened tonight when Shogun was ROBBED by the judges. I still can’t believe it. Machida knows he lost that fight, anyone who watched the whole fight knows Shogun won. Unless something changes, UFC is going to be just like boxing where horrible decisions like this are just considered part of the sport.

    BTW, compared to the Forrest-Rampage figh, you could make the argument that Forrest-Rampage was a draw, it was that close. For this fight, if it had been declared a draw, Shogun would STILL have been robbed as he CLEARLY won the fight. Still in shock anyone could have seen that fight in Machida’s favor. ALL THREE judges in favor of Machida? Unbelievable.

    Dana needs to call an investigation into this as Machida is just a paper champion now. I don’t care what the records say, Shogun Rua won his fight against Lyoto Machida on October 24, 2009. Put that in your record books.

  • dvsone says:

    “3. Luckily Dana agrees with us and said there will be a rematch.”

    To me, that is not enough as there’s nothing stopping a decision like this from happening again. Shogun could just as easily get robbed again. He did more than enough to claim the championship belt tonight, certain more than what Forrest did to Rampage to get that decision.

    There needs to be an investigation into how all three judges gave the fight to a guy who obviously lost. What is Dana going to do to prevent such an outrageous decision from happening again? The scoring criteria, the use of another sport’s scoring system in MMA (boxing’s 10pt must system), the qualifications of the judges, etc. all have to be examine after tonight.

  • Niv says:

    Well I beat the drum for a long time that Shogun was going to beat Machida, I predicted by ko or close decision. I completely forgot about how many times we see the rightful winner robbed by poor judging.

    So I was wrong, Machida won by robbery!

  • greg says:

    I thought I was watching a boxing championship when the decesion was rendered…. unbelievable. Shogun won every round of that fight. At the very least. it was four rounds to one. By the way, I am a Machida fan. But Shogun had his number. Kevin Lole (yahoo’s moron commentator), you are a moron.
    Shogun will be the next light heavyweight champion. He handled being robbed with grace & humility. The fans, on the other hand, should continue the outcry…. BULLSHIT!!!!

  • Rich S. says:

    This is horrible..
    Stuff like this makes me sick..

    All fighters know that you aren’t supposed to leave it up to the judges, but if you fight your best fight, dominate your opponent, and just come short of finishing him, you shouldn’t be deprived of your win..

    Also, I think, had Shogun been the champ already, he would’ve gotten the win.. I feel and have felt for a while now that being the champion already serves a great deal in the decision at the end of the fight.. Unless the champ does absolutely nothing good/right (see: Tim Sylvia in his defense against Randy), you aren’t very likely to take the belt from him via decision..

    What’s worse here isn’t that Shogun was robbed of the belt.. The guy’s practically a legend of the sport ALREADY, the belt would just make his title official.. But, the horrible thing here is that that’s the closest anyone at this weight is going to get to beating Machida, and it STILL didn’t work.. It’s a tragedy to think that Shogun would actually have to work his way back up to a rematch of a fight he clearly won, by fighting in this STACKED LHW division..

    Also, do we have the secret to beating Machida now? I don’t think the secret is body kicks.. Hell, after this fight, he’ll probably never take another body kick again.. Rather, the secret is a smart, dominant striker.. Of course Machida has always done well against grapplers, because they can’t get him down.. The best strikers he fought here in the UFC were Soko and Silva, and I wouldn’t consider them near the best strikers this weight class has to offer.. I can’t think of any other guys that will be able to do what Shogun did here tonight..

    Gah! This wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t such an obvious victory for Shogun! Machida is great, but it sickens me that he can get a W and retain his belt with that performance.. I really wish I could sock some of these judges right in the mouth..

    At least one good thing comes from this.. We have our precious Shogun back.. That alone is almost enough to rejoice, but it would be better if he could wear the crown he earned tonight..

  • JOEgun says:

    This sucks!! Well said Rich.

  • MMApride19 says:

    Im still furious at the decision, i thought id wake up and feel a little cooled down, but im still furious. I was convinced before the fight that Rua would be in top condition, and would prove to everyone who thought he was going to be ‘a walk in the park’ for Machida, that he truely is one of the bestLHW’s in the world. Fight ended… in my eyes it wasnt even close. He fought the perfect fight. He was the aggressor.. landed more shots (see http://www.fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html), and countered more of Machida’s shots, he blocked any counters that Machida came back with. Kept his hand high all the time. Iv heard people saying that Shogun should have been ‘more’ aggressive. How? Everyone TOO aggressive with Machida gets owned… Why would Shogun do that? He may have if he thought he was losing… Im sure you have all seen the press conference.. he thought he was winning so didnt push to hard. And rightfully so. He actually fought the perfect fight, and picked apart ‘the most elusive guy in the sport’. I think he probebly landed more shots on Machida than anybody has in the UFC put together.

    This is really is a severe miscarriage of justice (well put Cory lol), and Shogun should have that belt. You can only imagine how he feels now. Knowing he won… but no belt to show for it. Months of hard work.. and no recognition where it is deserved. Well… at least no one will be counting him out like they were going into this fight. I think he has proved to everyone now that he is back.

    There needs to be an immediate rematch (even though there need’nt have been if the judges made the right decision), but its only fair for Rua to get another chance at achieving his dream.

    I just cant believe it. Im shocked. And its going to take me a while (probebly until Shogun beats Machida in the rematch) to get over this.

  • ericfsu says:

    i have a challenge for all you EXPERTS out here. here me out – Watch the fight again but turn OFF the volume. you will notice two things: 1 the fight was pretty much dead even – Shogun didnt do enought to win the belt 2: You will realize how easily you can let Rogan and Goldberg sway the fight . No disprepect to either fight or either announcer but they were god awfull in there announcing of that fight and clearly had an agenda

  • MMApride19 says:

    ericfsu: i have a challenge for all you EXPERTS out here. here me out – Watch the fight again but turn OFF the volume. you will notice two things: 1 the fight was pretty much dead even – Shogun didnt do enought to win the belt2: You will realize how easily you can let Rogan and Goldberg sway the fight . No disprepect to either fight or either announcer but they were god awfull in there announcing of that fight and clearly had an agenda

    Lol, actually i though the announcers made it sound VERY CLOSE. They made it sound like it was ANYONES fight. When it was so one sided, and i had pretty much every round for Shogun, maybe one to Machida. Those counters that people thought Machida struck back with… were ALL BLOCKED. Shogun countered more effectively, he landed more shots, and he was more aggressive. They didnt actually hit Shogun flush.

    There is no doubt, whether i turn the sound on or off… that Shogun did not win. HE WON CLEARLY. He didnt fight TOO aggressive because he thought he won, he was told by his cornermen he was winning. And everyone who fights TOO aggressive with Machida gets owned. Shogun was smart, and fought the perfect fight. There no chance in hell he lost that fight.

  • Vogairian says:

    MMA-LOGIC:
    His (Dana’s) hand has been forced! outrage is everywhere. No rematch buddy. Shogun WON!
    Please name the rds Machida won. I have it 5-0 with rds 1 and 2 being closest. No take downs, Shogun was more aggressive, controlled the octagon better, landed more strikes, attempted more strikes, did more damage in every rd.

    Gave 2 and 3 to Machida. They were both close rounds, but I felt Machida took em both. Don’t forget… I also think Shogun won, I just don’t think it was the blowout a lot of people are wanting it to be.

  • kenonbass says:

    Any time Cecil Peoples is a judge for a fight, this is what happens.

    I blame him.

  • neijia says:

    Good comment from other internets:

    ” Perhaps the judges value strikes to the head over strikes to the body/legs. It’s clear in the fight that Machida’s the one who was trying to finish the fight, and believe it or not, he was the one who came closer of the two to doing so, on quite a few occasions.

    I’m not saying that Machida should have won, but those of you saying that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY Machida could have won the fight by any means need to open your eyes.”

    This is how I felt as well. Machida’s legs may hurt like hell but in rds 1 – 3, the likelihood to finish was only coming from Machida. Go back and watch the punch combos. Chopping down the tree will work if you actually chop it down like Griffin did against Rampage when Rampage could mount no offense.

  • Dontleavit2dec says:

    The reason y everyone was booing at the Staple Center was because everyone wanted 2 c Shogun get KO’ed Not a decision…..4 all of u that thought it was BS,what did Shogun do to award him self the Belt??? NOTHING!!! LEG KICKS….LOL you have to b kidding 90 % of shoguns kicks didnt even land and just cause 10 outa 100 do….the punch’s that Machida landed were jus to even that facture then u have ring control Machida obviously won w/ his takedown deffense and control of the pace of the match the only time i saw Machida lossing was the last minute of the fight. Have fun Bitching and complaining about a fair call all you want NEVER LEAVE IT TO DECISION!!! SHOGUN KNOWS THIS and since he didnt do enough work in the fight he lost the fight!! Shogun’s a steriod using no talent having has been fighter, come on people Forrest Griffin beat his ass jus a year ago!!! I think you all r Drinkin HATER-AID…..LOL!!!!!!!!
    GO MACHIDA GO DRAGON>>>MACHIDA ERA CONTINUES

  • Makington says:

    Everyone already knows Kevin Iole is an absolute buffoon. He report incorrect information every other day. He was probably the guy who started the Kimo Leopoldo stuff.

    I thought Rich made a very good point as well. Lyoto is probably never going to take a body kick again, and although I think Shogun deserves the immediate rematch, it just wouldn’t go the same. Shogun couldn’t throw the same plan out there, he would need a new strategy. Lyoto is probably the hardest fighter to make a strategy for, which is something Shogun shouldn’t have to do. Shogun fought the fight so perfect that I don’t think he could do it again.

    @MMApride. I think it was just you and I picking Shogun to win this fight beforehand (on this site anyways) So it seems 98% of people were picking Machida, and even they didn’t think he won. The guys who were watching Machida to see him win all thought he got soundly beat. I agree the fight was close as hell, but I don’t see the logic as to where you could say Lyoto beat up Shogun.

  • Dontleavit2dec says:

    SHOGUN LOST GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!

  • neijia says:

    Iole has this part right:
    “And while many disagree with the judges, their decision is at least defensible. White blasted them for their scoring, but he and many of the angry fans didn’t take time to consider that the judges weren’t drinking beer and eating popcorn and slapping five with their friends or doing any of the things that fans do as they watch a bout. Their concentration was on the cage and the action inside it for all five minutes of every round.

    Fans, who are distracted by other things, tend to look away from the action for a split second or two several times in a fight, whether it be to talk to a friend, grab a snack or gesticulate after a big blow. When a bout is as close as Machida-Rua was, that’s often the difference between scoring the round correctly and getting it wrong.”

    He also is right that Rua’s cornermen (and Machida’s for that matter) should’ve been urging some action at the end in such a close, technical fight.

  • bigbadjohn says:

    I woke up at 8 o’clock this morning and watched this fight again on my DVR. Last night, although i did have a couple wobbly pops, i was glued to the television, and I scored it 4 to 1 Shogun. This morning I am bright-eyed and chipper, but I’m having trouble finding why I scored even 1 round to Machida. If any of you find time to sit down and watch 25 minutes again of this boring tilt please offer up an explanation for what rounds Machida won. And then explain which 2 rounds Shogun lost. I want a freaking APPEAL.

    If Machida is so great then maybe Rua is the best 205er in the world still.

    And If the judges were looking for someone to constantly bring the heat to the champion, then they don’t understand it would play right into Machida’s gameplan.

    I wonder if Cecil Peoples worked that Belcher v. Sexiyama fight as well.

  • Makington says:

    The logic where, ‘you have to beat the champ badly to be the champ’ doesn’t make quite sense either. By that logic, any champion already has an unfair advantage in that they don’t have to win the fight, just not lose badly. The champ should have to beat the challenger just as badly to stay the champ. That logic is terribly flawed. I mean, Shogun didn’t brutally KO Machida, but I thought (as everyone else) that he soundly picked Machida apart for most, if not all of the fight. The logic that you really have the beat the champ bad to get the belt is basically saying that the judges already have bias and they will give it to Machida if it’s close. It sounds ridiculous, but that’s pretty much what happened last night. It seems like the judges were like, “Well Machida didn’t get the piss knocked out of him, so he must’ve won the fight.”

  • MMApride19 says:

    Makington: Everyone already knows Kevin Iole is an absolute buffoon. He report incorrect information every other day. He was probably the guy who started the Kimo Leopoldo stuff.I thought Rich made a very good point as well. Lyoto is probably never going to take a body kick again, and although I think Shogun deserves the immediate rematch, it just wouldn’t go the same. Shogun couldn’t throw the same plan out there, he would need a new strategy. Lyoto is probably the hardest fighter to make a strategy for, which is something Shogun shouldn’t have to do. Shogun fought the fight so perfect that I don’t think he could do it [email protected] I think it was just you and I picking Shogun to win this fight beforehand (on this site anyways) So it seems 98% of people were picking Machida, and even they didn’t think he won. The guys who were watching Machida to see him win all thought he got soundly beat. I agree the fight was close as hell, but I don’t see the logic as to where you could say Lyoto beat up Shogun.

    Yeh there were very few of us on this site which believed Shogun could actually come close. I have calmed down alot since the fight now. Immediatley After, i was so furious. Iv never been so angry after a bad decision before. After watching the fight a further 3 times. I still cant call Machida winning. I gave Machida round 3. And i thought Rd 2 could have gone either way. Decisions are usually made mainly on octagon control and damage inflicted and then takedowns come into it aswell (but they were irrelevanbt in this fight). So… going on that… Shogun had COMPLETE control, throughout the fight. He set the pace… was the aggressor… tried to press the action. He inflicted FAR more damage. And landed nearly double the ammount of shots, those counters that Machida attempted after Shoguns kicks, were just blocked most the time, and the shots that landed did little to no damage. Shogun came out fresh in Rd 5, Machida looked a beaten man IMO. Which told the story of the whole fight IMO. Look, im no judge, but i have been watching MMA long enough to decide who should win a fight based on performance. I know it was close, but it seemed to obvious to me, based on performance, that Shogun won the fight. I cant see it any other way.

    I knew Shogun could get back to his former self (i cant believe how low his heart rate is… 42 beats a second is amazing really – he obviously trained hard). I was one of the very few to stick by him, and i have been a fan for ages. So, yeh, i am devastated for him. I think he deserved the win. You could argue that he should have pressed the action abit more… however… if you try and press to much against Machida.. you just get caught!! So is that really the smart thing to do? No. He fought the perfect fight against Machida. You cant argue that. He exposed machidas weaknesses. Something no one has yet been able to do. And Shogun did it. Even when NOBODY thought he could. He proved everybody wrong. And after seeing that fight. I honestly think he could afford to be abit more aggressive the next time. He showed that in the clinch, Machida can be roughed up a little, with elbows and knees.. He proved that Machida CAN be hit.

    IMO, i cant see anyone doing as well against Machida as Shogun. As i firmly believe that Shogun stands at either no.1 or no.2 LHW in the world, in terms of skill… and just raw fighting talent. And i have believed that for years. Even after he got beat by Griffin.

    If Shogun has to have another fight before his rematch, then i wont mind to much, it will be more entertaining anyway, because the other fighter will probebly actually FIGHT with Shogun lol. And i also think that Shogun could actually beat ANYONE in that division. He technically defeated the ‘unbeatable’ fighter. He can beat anyone i think.

    I think in the rematch.. it will be a different story. Shogun will remain patient as he did, however with more urgency to finish the fight. Because we all know how powerful Shogun is.. he can KO anyone he face. Shogun has silenced the critics in this fight, but he needs to be recognised to be the top LHW fighter in the world, and to do that, he obviously going to have to KO Machida. And i believe he can.

  • MMApride19 says:

    bigbadjohn: I woke up at 8 o’clock this morning and watched this fight again on my DVR. Last night, although i did have a couple wobbly pops, i was glued to the television, and I scored it 4 to 1 Shogun. This morning I am bright-eyed and chipper, but I’m having trouble finding why I scored even 1 round to Machida. If any of you find time to sit down and watch 25 minutes again of this boring tilt please offer up an explanation for what rounds Machida won. And then explain which 2 rounds Shogun lost. I want a freaking APPEAL.
    If Machida is so great then maybe Rua is the best 205er in the world still.
    And If the judges were looking for someone to constantly bring the heat to the champion, then they don’t understand it would play right into Machida’s gameplan.I wonder if Cecil Peoples worked that Belcher v. Sexiyama fight as well.

    Yeh, i watched a further 3 times. I cant understand it. I really cant. I dont even drink alcohol (im preparing for a fight, so no alcohol for me atm lol). So even on the night, i was fully aware. But i watched it a few more times anyway, just trying to find anyway i could justify Machida winning.. Nope… Nothing. Its unbelievable. It really is. Im sad for him, but im confident he will come back, and take the belt (again) from Machida. He proved he can beat him, now he just has to KO him. Which, by Shoguns standards, he should easily be able to do.

  • Niv says:

    I think Shogun proved he’s still the #1 lhw fighter in the world today, just as I’ve been saying for a long time now.

    This is really a travesty of justice that he was robbed last night after bringing such a solid game plan forward and executing it to near perfection.

    I think Shogun will come up with another strategy and he will exploit Machida again, but take it a step further and ko him.

    I hope they put this fight together soon, but I know Lyoto’s going to need a month off before he can walk again so it won’t be soon enough.

  • Dontleavit2dec says:

    R U PPL SMOKIN SUMTHIN????? R U 4GETTIN THAT FORREST GRIFFIN BEAT SHOGUN LESS THAN A YR AGO???? HE SUX GIVE IT A REST…..MACHIDA WON!!! GO CRY SUMWHERE ELSE!!!! NO-1 HAD COMPLETE CONTROL THERE WAS BARELY A FIGHT TO B HAD LAST NITE. IF UR THE CHAMP N IT GOES TO A CLOSE DECISION THE CHAMP REMAINS THE CHAMP!!! IF SHOGUN WAS CHAMP N THEY GAVE IT TO HIM EVERY-1 WOULD B SAYIN MACHIDA GOT ROBBED….KEEP CRYIN CAUSE THE ONLY REAL PFP FIGHTERS RIGHT NOW R MACHIDA N SILVA SO IF U DONT LIKE HOW THEY CALL THE DECISIONS DONT WATCH EM ANY MORE CAUSE THIS IS HOW ITS BEEN SINCE THE BEGINING SORRY TO SAY BUT THE JUDGES AD IT RIGHT IF U THINK SHOGUN HAD ANY TYPE OF CNTROL EVIDENTLY U HAVE NEVER SEEN MACHIDA FIGHT B4….. CRY BABYS N WINERS GO WATCH SOCCER OR NASCAR I BET ULL FIND SUMTHIN TO CRY ABOUT WIT THAT 2

  • Dontleavit2dec says:

    MACHIDA IS THE BEST LIGHT EAVY WEIGHT IN THE WORLD!!!! LIKE IT OR NOT HAHAHAHA TO ALL U HATERS…..KEEP HATIN

  • Rich S. says:

    I think I may have picked up on what the judges’ problem was..

    A couple of years ago, Machida was practically nobody.. The hardcores liked him, and Rogan always talked highly of him during his fights.. But, all of his fights were decisions and he barely got televised, or built up.. Then, he gets a knock out, and immediately gets a title shot.. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have gotten the shot, that’s just adding to my argument here.. Then, he knocks out Rashad, and out of nowhere, they’re pushing “The Machida Era”..

    So, with Machida’s recent emergence as a popular, marketable fighter, I think maybe the judges were going to try to change their scoring to Machida’s style.. To make it more fair, maybe? I mean, Rua had octagon control the ENTIRE FIGHT, but maybe the judges saw that as Machida letting his gameplan unfold.. Rua was pushing the pace and being the aggressor the ENTIRE FIGHT, but maybe the judges saw that as Machida waiting to counter..

    Do you see what I’m getting at?

    Idk, this all sounds so crazy..

  • Makington says:

    I think we need an updated rankings Cory…..

    But put Shogun top ranked!

  • Makington says:

    I see what you’re saying Rich, and it’s actually a very good point. It seems like the judges marked him for elusive control, and patience control. However, that may be more fair towards Machida, it’s not fair at all. Kind of like Quarry/Starnes. Should Starnes get points on the cards because he backed away from Nate the entire fight? Now I’m not hating on Machida, and I’ll always be a big fan of his, but there is no way he should be looked highly upon for his elusive style. I love watching his style, but ultimately he should lose out on octagon control and aggression. He usually makes up for it with the way he picks apart fighters, but in this case he didn’t.

    Another good call with the ‘Machida Era’ They’ve been hyping not just Machida, but they spent a lot on the Machida Era. It would kind of come off lame if the Machida Era didn’t even last one fight.

  • The_iceman88 says:

    I understand how everyone feels because after watching this fight myself last night I thought the same thing especially with Joe Rogan’s comments. I just watched the fight again twice and even went as far as to do a round by round score the fight myself. What I have to say is that I now understand why Machida won. Everyone must keep in mind that on the scorecards they do not count punches or kicks that are blocked or parried. Machida is a Karate fighter and this is a good example of how you do not want to get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter. Rua only landed a few headshots the entire fight, in the fifth round and one counter punch in the 4th. I would say that at least 70% of Rua’s lower leg kicks were either parried or he totally missed them as Machida backed up and one thing everyone forgets is that on the scorecards the power of the strikes is not included all that matter is how they land. When I watched the fight a second and third time I realized that Machida blocked almost all of Rua’s strikes which negates them and they are not counted. Machida also landed pucnhes to the face almost every time Rua actually landed his kicks which is why Machida outscored him like crazy. The only round I gave to Rua decisively is round 5 the others were all up in the air and keep in mind that judges will always respect landed head shots and body shots over lower leg kicks. Machida showed his Karate skills by out scoring Rua and he did deserve to win. You shouldn’t become a champion because you can land 20 lower leg kicks and land 3 punches to the head in a fight. Another thing to keep an eye on was remember that Joe Rogan said that Shogun had won the first 2 rounds which he clearly did not. watch the strikes that landed. Joe Rogan was so unbelievably biased in this fight it was insane. All he was saying was OMG shogun shogun shogun… everytime Machida landed those straight punches to the face and even when he gave shogun his black eye, all Rogan would say ohhhhh Shogun kick to the body. Machida is out on his feet, ohhh Machida is in trouble… Shogun is not as accurate as Machida and always remember a head shot is always > body or leg shots. Blocked shots do not count nor do parried ones. Please I encourage everyone to watch the fight again and not to listen to Joe Rogan as he is for some reason is obviously in love with shogun. Machida outscored him there was no doubt about it. Watch the fight again and don’t listen to Joe Rogan. I am sure then you will see that he did win the fight fair and square. Never get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter.

  • submit662266 says:

    First off, I agree that Shogun won the fight. He was far more aggressive. I watched it without commentators (I was at the Staples Center) and thought it was 2-2 until the last round, which Shogun clearly won. Both fighters would attack with flurries, land 4 to 5 shots, and back out. I don’t recall either of them ever being in enough danger to be finished.

    Apparently, title fights have different rules for winning. If the challenger is going to take the belt, he must finish the other fighter or be overwhelmingly dominant (like Tibeau v. Neer). All the champion needs to do is be able to walk around under his own power when the final bell rings.

  • The_iceman88 says:

    To Rich S, and to Makington about the Machida era thing. The problem with what your saying is that the announcers did not talk about Machida almost at all during this fight. You didn’t hear any Machida propaganda during the fight. All Joe Rogan was talking about was Shogun. Shogun this and Shogun that, and OMG I want to crawl in bed with Shogun. If the UFC had anything to do with it. They would have been talking about how “amazing Machida is” and how he is so “unstoppable”. Not about how Shogun was so “DEVASTATING” with his leg kicks and body shots. If they were “hyping up” the Machida era thing I am sure that Dana would have told Joe not to bad mouth him.

  • submit662266 says:

    The other thing that stood out in my mind was how fickle the fans are. When the fighters walked in, they were cheering for both guys, but they were louder for Machida. The chorus of boos directed at Machida after the decision was announced and during his interview was atrocious!! He was not the judge. He had nothing to do with the bad call.

    What should Lyota have done? Surrendered his belt? How many of you high and mighty (more high than mighty) knuckle-heads would have said “I think I really lost the fight, and I relinquish the belt?” Not one of you (I wouldn’t have either).

    I think Machida lost, but I still think he’s a great fighter. The combo he threw in the 2nd or 3rd round was one the best things I have ever seen. I will continue to be fan of his.

  • 27jride says:

    the CSAC are completely incompetent and they have just proved it plain as day! I was rooting for Machida and I’m disgusted that they gave him the win. Why bother to watch a fight that goes the distance if they’re gonna toss a coin at the end because they have no idea who won?!

  • submit662266 says:

    I’m also a new fan of Shogun. I thought that the high-point of his career was several years ago, and that he was in decline. He proved me wrong, and showed why he is a legend. He’s one of the rare fighters that is top-notch in all facets of the game. The rest of the LHW are now fighting to see who is #3 in that division.

  • edub says:

    Niv: I think Shogun will come up with another strategy and he will exploit Machida again, but take it a step further and ko him.

    Gotta disagree with this part. Shogun fought a perfect fight, and he should have won. I just don’t think he is gonna be able to match that performance again. Whether he gets too aggressive in the next fight or machida makes a change i feel Machida is gonna take it. Which is definately a shame considering Shogun should be the champion right now, and machida shouldnt even be getting an immediate title shot.

  • neijia says:

    The_iceman88: I understand how everyone feels because after watching this fight myself last night I thought the same thing especially with Joe Rogan’s comments.I just watched the fight again twice and even went as far as to do a round by round score the fight myself.What I have to say is that I now understand why Machida won.Everyone must keep in mind that on the scorecards they do not count punches or kicks that are blocked or parried.Machida is a Karate fighter and this is a good example of how you do not want to get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter.Rua only landeda few headshots the entire fight, in the fifth round and one counter punch in the 4th.I would say that at least 70% of Rua’s lower leg kicks were either parried or he totally missed them as Machida backed up and one thing everyone forgets is that on the scorecards the power of the strikes is not included all that matter is how they land.When I watched the fight a second and third time I realized that Machida blocked almost all of Rua’s strikes which negates them and they are not counted.Machida also landed pucnhes to the face almost every time Rua actually landed his kicks which is why Machida outscored him like crazy.The only round I gave to Rua decisively is round 5 the others were all up in the air and keep in mind that judges will always respect landed head shots and body shots over lower leg kicks.Machida showed his Karate skills by out scoring Rua and he did deserve to win.You shouldn’t become a champion because you can land 20 lower leg kicks and land 3 punches to the head in a fight.Another thing to keep an eye on was remember that Joe Rogan said that Shogun had won the first 2 rounds which he clearly did not.watch the strikes that landed.Joe Rogan was so unbelievably biased in this fight it was insane.All he was saying was OMG shogun shogun shogun…everytime Machida landed those straight punches to the face and even when he gave shogun his black eye, all Rogan would say ohhhhh Shogun kick to the body.Machida is out on his feet, ohhh Machida is in trouble…Shogun is not as accurate as Machida and always remember a head shotis always > body or leg shots.Blocked shots do not count nor do parried ones.Please I encourage everyone to watch the fight again and not to listen to Joe Rogan as he is for some reason is obviously in love with shogun.Machida outscored him there was no doubt about it.Watch the fight again and don’t listen to Joe Rogan.I am sure then you will see that he did win the fight fair and square.Never get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter.

    The Iceman has the correct. Rewatch the match minus Rogan’s terrible commentary.

  • kenonbass says:

    What the f*** more did Shogun have to do to win this fight!? As per 4 MMA fans in my house, 2 of which were pro Machida, all 4 thought Shogun clearly won it!

    This bullshit about trying to win a round in the last 30 seconds really pisses me off. That works to win over judges, but it doesn’t exactly mean you won the fight.

    That is why, (i’m hoping) MMA scorekeeping is better than boxing.

    Rua clearly won that fight. I still can’t get over everyone saying otherwise. In the most tactical fight I’ve seen for a championship in the last 5 years the judges ruined the scorecard. At least give me as split decision. Please, I would take that at this point.

  • kenonbass says:

    And, you morons. They were not booing Machida. They were booing the terrible decision.

    And come on a guy who is walking backwards for about 85% of the fight and then having a close decision victory go in his favor deserves to be booed. HE WAS A 4 TO 1 UNDERDOG!!!!! As far as the bookmakers are concerned he should have HOSED Rua.

    And you are actually surprised that he was booed!? Really!?

    Has Randy Couture ever done that in his hole career? They booed A. Silva when he refused to commit to destroying Leites. Machida peddled backwards for the whole fight, not instilling any damage on his opponent. That’s why it’s different than when he fought Ortiz or anyone else. He is a great fighter and I completely admire him, but he did not win that night.

  • mike57846 says:

    Respectfuly, the only “severe miscarriage” here was the above miscarriage of journalism. There is certainly room for debate as to who won the fight, but to say that one fighter dominated the other or that this is the worst decision ever is ridiculous (now, Bisping vs Hamill, don’t get me started on that one..). While it seems a lot of people want to say how badly Shogun beat Machida, it is telling that even Shogun thought he lost the first two rounds – well, sorry but the three judges all saw the fight differently and gave Machida one extra round. Fightmetric gave rounds 1 (which Shogun thought Machida won), 4 and 5 to Shogun, although it gave Machida a slightly higher performance rating (a statistic used to measure the quality of a fighter’s performance). I had Machida winning a close decision, but it doesn’t matter now because the fight is done. Hopefully, we’ll get a quick rematch with a more decisive ending.

  • mike57846 says:

    The_iceman88: I understand how everyone feels because after watching this fight myself last night I thought the same thing especially with Joe Rogan’s comments. I just watched the fight again twice and even went as far as to do a round by round score the fight myself. What I have to say is that I now understand why Machida won. Everyone must keep in mind that on the scorecards they do not count punches or kicks that are blocked or parried. Machida is a Karate fighter and this is a good example of how you do not want to get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter. Rua only landed a few headshots the entire fight, in the fifth round and one counter punch in the 4th. I would say that at least 70% of Rua’s lower leg kicks were either parried or he totally missed them as Machida backed up and one thing everyone forgets is that on the scorecards the power of the strikes is not included all that matter is how they land. When I watched the fight a second and third time I realized that Machida blocked almost all of Rua’s strikes which negates them and they are not counted. Machida also landed pucnhes to the face almost every time Rua actually landed his kicks which is why Machida outscored him like crazy. The only round I gave to Rua decisively is round 5 the others were all up in the air and keep in mind that judges will always respect landed head shots and body shots over lower leg kicks. Machida showed his Karate skills by out scoring Rua and he did deserve to win. You shouldn’t become a champion because you can land 20 lower leg kicks and land 3 punches to the head in a fight. Another thing to keep an eye on was remember that Joe Rogan said that Shogun had won the first 2 rounds which he clearly did not. watch the strikes that landed. Joe Rogan was so unbelievably biased in this fight it was insane. All he was saying was OMG shogun shogun shogun… everytime Machida landed those straight punches to the face and even when he gave shogun his black eye, all Rogan would say ohhhhh Shogun kick to the body. Machida is out on his feet, ohhh Machida is in trouble… Shogun is not as accurate as Machida and always remember a head shot is always > body or leg shots. Blocked shots do not count nor do parried ones. Please I encourage everyone to watch the fight again and not to listen to Joe Rogan as he is for some reason is obviously in love with shogun. Machida outscored him there was no doubt about it. Watch the fight again and don’t listen to Joe Rogan. I am sure then you will see that he did win the fight fair and square. Never get into a scoring match with a Karate fighter.

    Great commentary by iceman88 above….

  • Detrioter says:

    Not once did Rua score a knockdown or a takedown. There was no ground game and no submission attempts. Not once was there a moment that looked like the end was near, or that Rua was about to finish Machida. The outcome was correct.

    Rua scored a lot of kicks, however, that should not be enough to win a title. The challenger was very good, but he was not overwhelmingly superior to the champion. Many people were upset when Forrest won on leg kicks over Rampage as well.

    Perhaps the decision seems unfair, but it is right. Winning a title by judges’ decision should be extremely difficult and very rare; and people will always disagree about the outcome regardless of what happens. The same ‘ol saying rings true again: never leave it to the judges.

    Hopefully, this will be the next great UFC rivalry – a la Liddell/Couture and Hughes/GSP.
    Either way, the re-match will be one of the biggest fights in UFC history. Hype sells fights – and the fans get to see two great warriors at it again.

  • MMApride19 says:

    edub:
    Gotta disagree with this part. Shogun fought a perfect fight, and he should have won. I just don’t think he is gonna be able to match that performance again. Whether he gets too aggressive in the next fight or machida makes a change i feel Machida is gonna take it. Which is definately a shame considering Shogun should be the champion right now, and machida shouldnt even be getting an immediate title shot.

    Lol man, i dont think you are ever going to start believeing in Shogun are you. Before the fight… Shogun was going to get destoyed apparently. Now after a razor close decision, where Shogun inflicted more damage, and i think actually out struck Machida to a point, you still think Machida will take it again? Shogun looked the far better fighter in the fight aswell, Machida looked very average i thought. But just my opinion. If Shogun can change his usual style of fighting so much, in order to perfect a gameplan like that, what makes you think he wont be able to do it again..? People seriously underestimate this guys talent…. although I have so much respect for Machida, i think Shogun is just a better fighter. He proved it last night, and he will prove it again. And next time in a more decisive fashion.

    Come man, he must have proved something to you last night. Before the fight, i remember you… edub… saying Shogun had no chance in hell… and that he was going to get destroyed.. turned out slightly different than that i thought lol.

  • edub says:

    MMApride19: Lol man, i dont think you are ever going to start believeing in Shogun are you. Before the fight… Shogun was going to get destoyed apparently. Now after a razor close decision, where Shogun inflicted more damage, and i think actually out struck Machida to a point, you still think Machida will take it again? Shogun looked the far better fighter in the fight aswell, Machida looked very average i thought. But just my opinion. If Shogun can change his usual style of fighting so much, in order to perfect a gameplan like that, what makes you think he wont be able to do it again..? People seriously underestimate this guys talent…. although I have so much respect for Machida, i think Shogun is just a better fighter. He proved it last night, and he will prove it again. And next time in a more decisive fashion.Come man, he must have proved something to you last night. Before the fight, i remember you… edub… saying Shogun had no chance in hell… and that he was going to get destroyed.. turned out slightly different than that i thought lol.

    All good point pride. I just dunno what it is. You know Im usually around 60-70% on the fight predictions so i could easily be wrong on this again(because Shogun should have won that fight), but i just see Machida taking the next one. 2 main reasons I guess is that….
    1. Considering that Shogun got screwed out of this fight I think he’ll come in overagressive. Which would play right into Machida’s hands. I don’t think Shogun can fight another perfect fight.
    2. Machida well watch this fight and figure out he lost. I mean the guy is good enough that when he gets “dominated” which a lot of people are saying, the fight was still close.(I had the fight 49-48). I mean Shogun got stuffed on every takedown he tried, and Machida attempted about 2 half hearted tds.
    We’re all wrong at some points. So I might be wrong again. Its just my opinion.

  • edub says:

    And btw I did beat both Cory and Andrest in the pick department so I can’t be that dumb can I?

  • twyg says:

    First can we all agree that three fighters missing weight is a disgrace. Next Okami looked horrible and that ends all the talk of him being the most disrespected fighter in the UFC. Third, Cain looked great and Rothwell just plain didn’t bring it. It was an early stoppage but Cain had that fight, and gets winner of Brock/Shane. Now for the main course, The judges cards need to be released to the public after a fight. We need to know what goes through the heads of these people. Is there anyway to judge them and their preformances, so promoters and athletic commisions know who the best are. How do you become a judge anyway? To me this fight all comes down to how you score rounds one and two. Machida wins three and Rua wins four and five. We as viewers make up our minds about a fight when it is all over, so in hindsight yes Rua won. During the fight I gave two and three to Machida and four and five to Rua. Round one is a toss up. Also agree that Joe Rogan was all over Shoguns balls.

  • Niv says:

    edub what I saw last night was what I expected except there was no ko. Shogun proved that he was the superior fighter and I still believe that he will do it again.

    There is pressure on Machida as well here and I believe he may feel enough pressure to open up and get ko’d as well.

    I think Shogun and his corner (and 99%of everyone watching) were so convinced that he was clearly winning the fight they had no reason to have him step up the pressure to take him out. I think Shogun is so good on so many levels and he’s proven he can fight a very controlled fight, that he’ll come back even stronger and will probably batter Machida more every-time they clinch. That was the one area that surprised me last night was when they clinched Rua battered Machida with knees, but only on a few occasions threw any punches or elbows up top when they were separating.

    That is the one area he can really take advantage of next time, never separate without a flurry and chances are the karate kid will be done before round 5.

  • Makington says:

    The_iceman88: To Rich S, and to Makington about the Machida era thing.The problem with what your saying is that the announcers did not talk about Machida almost at all during this fight.You didn’t hear any Machida propaganda during the fight.All Joe Rogan was talking about was Shogun.Shogun this and Shogun that, and OMG I want to crawl in bed with Shogun.If the UFC had anything to do with it.They would have been talking about how “amazing Machida is” and how he is so “unstoppable”.Not about how Shogun was so “DEVASTATING” with his leg kicks and body shots.If they were “hyping up” the Machida era thing I am sure that Dana would have told Joe not to bad mouth him.

    They obviously aren’t going to hype Machida during the fight, that’s all done before the fight, and trust me, they talked quite a while about it. Especially after his fight with Rashad, the UFC was all over him being the next pound for pound great. The UFC was very slow promoting him before they decided to take their leap of faith and promote the hell out of him. He obviously had the skill all along but it wasn’t until he started KOing people that the UFC really started to bring him some attention. After the Rashad fight, they went on a lot about how since he trains with Anderson Silva and Nogueira, he is going to have the exact same title run, and he will clean out his division the way Silva cleaned out MW. Even up to the preview a couple days before, they promoted how unstoppable, unhittable, and basically unhuman this guy was. The fact that Shogun went out and picked him apart on the feet all night would be a tough nut for the UFC brass to swallow. The attention that Rogan gave during the fight was basically all he got. Before the fight it was all eyes on Machida, and the only thing they said about Rua was that he used to be great, and they think he will possibly be hopefully great again maybe if they get kinda lucky potentially.

    They did spend quite a lot hyping up Machida, making him out to seem invincible, much the way they have been hyping Silva. It would make sense that the judges were kind of looking lighter on Machida and scoring the fight by looking happily upon his 0 octagon control and aggression.

  • Niv says:

    Another thing that is bothering me right now is how everyone is upset with the commentary. I watched this fight a few times now and I think the commentary was bang on for a change.

    I wasn’t swayed in the least with what they said, I saw what they were talking about. Many of Machida’s counters missed last night or were blocked by Rua’s hands, so honestly I don’t know why everyone is upset about Rogan.

    It was obvious at the end of the fight last night when Machida could barely dress himself his body language spoke volumes, he was beaten. Everybody saw it but the judges and a few die hard Machida fans. I really don’t see one single area that Machida excelled in.

    Another measuring stick here is that I and a handful of others were constantly saying that Shogun is the better fighter and he’ll prove it. By a very wide margin most mma fans and experts were on Machida’s side, but now the role is completely reversed.

    What this tells me is people who really thought Machida was unbeatable believed their eyes last night and not their feelings.

    Kudo’s to you guys that can admit that Shogun was robbed.

  • Iconoclastic says:

    This decision was total crap. How many loud ass kicks does Shogun have to land before they start counting? These “judges” need to be retrained on how to score a MMA fight, maybe the overall scoring system needs to be changed to give techniques such as kicking more rank. I personally like to see ex-MMA fighters become judges because they know, more than anyone else, what is actually causing damage to a fighter.

    Towards the end of the fight it was obvious how much damage those kicks had on Machida. Even when Machida would go on the offensive, as soon as they replayed the action it was apparent that he wasn’t connecting .

    The rematch should be shown for free on Spike because in all probability it will play out like just like it did this Sat. with Shogun dominating and if you ask me it’s bad business to have fans pay for a rerun……….

  • FightFan313 says:

    You guys are off you friggin rocker if you think shogun did enought to win or you just got brain washed by Rogen and Goldberg. It was close but Machida was never hurt nor looking to find a way out like shogun was in the third round. Machida out counters shogun. They both blocked alot of punches. Like I said. Shogun did not do enough. You have to press for the belt. Shogun never did that. The key is ..did enough. That was not done. Watch it again but this time think for yourself LOL.

  • submit662266 says:

    I googled MMA rules (or might have been “officiating”), looked around a little bit, and found a site (don’t currently have time to look again). But it explained how the judges score a bout. The thing that was interesting is that points are given for effective defense. While Shogun landed some great kicks, Machida backed away or dodged many as well. Although this criteria is lower scoring than other components, in a close fight like this one (I thought the first 3 rounds were very close) a small technicality like this could be the deciding factor.

    Also, the judges are seperated, sitting with different vantage points. No doubt, some strikes are not scored due to obscured view or the angle at which they are viewed. I honestly think they try to be objective, but it is obviously far from fool-proof.

    As we all can clearly see, it is never advisable to let the judges decide the outcome.

  • submit662266 says:

    Thoughts about some of the other fights: I was shocked at how easily Velasquez destroyed Rothwell. After his showing with Kongo, I had written him off. Can’t wait to see him fight Carwin for the title.

    I was surprised Okami didn’t do hardly anything to be competitive. Sonnen looked fantastic. Joe Daddy did the right thing by going to New Mexico. If Rampage was with a coach like Greg Jackson or Randy Couture, it would do him a world of good. Tibeau looked phenomenal. I didn’t give him much of a chance at all, and I was way wrong about that. I don’t remember another fight where this was the case, but as Neer was being hurled to the mat, his feet were WAY UP in the air!

    Went to the fight with a fellow 5oz fanatic (ocachewbaca), my girlfriend, and my dad. It was sooo good. Also entertaining was the Michael Jackson Thriller fiasco directly across from the arena. I’m still hyped up from the whole thing!!

  • twyg says:

    I hope everyone here knows what is going to happen with the rematch. It will go all five rounds and everyone will think that Machida has won. Then the judges will figure it is their duty to right a wrong and give the fight to Rua. Watch that shit happen and then we get a third fight. Has happened in boxing (Marquez/Barrera I think) and will now happen in MMA.

  • PsYc0tIkDrEaM says:

    I think there’s a reason why Bruce Buffer did not say “AND STILL THE UFC LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD IS” after saying “By unanimous decision”

  • deals says:

    I feel very badly for both fighter but in the end the decision was a bad one.

    What if this would have ended in a draw? Both fighters get an interim championship title and an immediate rematch. I don’t think the fans would be up in a stink as much.

    I would have accepted a draw decision for that fight.

    What are some other peoples thoughts?

  • MMApride19 says:

    PsYc0tIkDrEaM: I think there’s a reason why Bruce Buffer did not say “AND STILL THE UFC LIGHTHEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD IS” after saying “By unanimous decision”

    Lol i thought that was strange you know. He always says that.. well when someone defends the title. Maybe he wasnt expecting it lol. I dont know. Or maybe he has just changed his announcements lol.

  • Jstew3785 says:

    Everyone says you have to “beat” the champ or whatever, but that’s what Shogun did. He outpointed him all night long. Just like Forrest did to Rampage. There was no decisive finish in that fight but Forrest won on points.

  • Makington says:

    That’s what I was saying earlier Jstew, that logic is completely flawed. The champ should have to beat the challenger just as bad to stay the champ. It’s like saying the champ doesn’t even have to win the fight, just not get knocked out, which was the case unfortunately.

  • FightFan313 says:

    Does anyone have the punch and kick count because from what I saw Machida out countered Shogun with punches and landed some really good knees to the body. Shogun landed some good leg kicks with a few punches to the face. All in all I think the fight was close. The third for me was the real deciding factor when Machida had Sho up against the fence and obviously Shogun was looking for a way out. Shogun never did that to Machida. In the Post fight Shogun had some obvious bruising on Face and Machida had a couple cuts which 1 I think could have came from the glove. Really good fight though.

    To touch on Forrest winning the belt over Jackson. Forrest was the more active fighter for sure in that fight. I just didn’t think Rampage did enough keep the belt. That fight was way different than Machida Shogun.

    If we could fight the punch and kick totals I think that would help

    In the Post fight Shogun had some obvious bruising on Face and Machida had a couple cuts which 1 I think could have came from the glove

  • Makington says:

    The stats are up online, and even by the punch and kick stats it had Shogun winning the fight. He landed something near 70 leg kicks, whereas neither really landed many head shots, everything was blocked.

    Do you mean Shogun was looking for a way out of the fight in the third, or a way out of the flurry? Because there was absolutely no way Shogun was trying to find a way out of the fight. As for him wanting to get out of the flurry, he wasn’t really. He was throwing back counters and moving around, but you don’t want to get caught with your back against the cage when your opponent is throwing punches. Look at Ortiz/Liddell. You just have nowhere to go; it’s boxing 101. Had Ortiz not backed himself into the corner he could have moved away or side stepped Chuck’s flurry and kept fighting, without letting Chuck mount any significant offense.

  • Iconoclastic says:

    FightFan313 says:
    October 26, 2009 at 12:54 am (Quote)

    You guys are off you friggin rocker if you think shogun did enought to win or you just got brain washed by Rogen and Goldberg. It was close but Machida was never hurt nor looking to find a way out like shogun was in the third round. Machida out counters shogun. They both blocked alot of punches. Like I said. Shogun did not do enough. You have to press for the belt. Shogun never did that. The key is ..did enough. That was not done. Watch it again but this time think for yourself LOL.

    I’ve been watching since the early-days of the UFC, so I think I know a thing or two about effective aggressiveness. I don’t need the judges or commentators to tell me who won a fight. Also, many of the people on here probably watched the fight at a sports bar or, like I did, at a friends’ place and the most commentating gets drowned out because of all the noise, so your comment about getting brain washed by Rogen and Goldberg falls flat……

  • mu_shin says:

    One indisputable fact emerges from this controversial decision: Mauricio Shogun Rua has emerged from his battle with injury, has recovered every ounce of cardio conditioning he may have lost, and established himself in this fight as fuly integrated into fighting in the cage under UFC rules. He is all the way back, and proved beyone the shadow of a doubt that he is more than soccer kicks and head stomps; he is a mature, disciplined, experienced champion, with elite level support, capable of designing and implementing a brilliant strategic and tactical gameplan.

    The Rua/Machida rematch will be another classic contest, and I only hope both of these fighters can arrive for #2 with no injuries, no excuses, and all the enthusiasm and intensity they brought to the first match.

  • cocoonofhorror says:

    Iconoclastic: FightFan313 says:
    October 26, 2009 at 12:54 am (Quote)I’ve been watching since the early-days of the UFC, so I think I know a thing or two about effective aggressiveness.

    no, you dont.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Iconoclastic: FightFan313 says:
    October 26, 2009 at 12:54 am (Quote)You guys are off you friggin rocker if you think shogun did enought to win or you just got brain washed by Rogen and Goldberg. It was close but Machida was never hurt nor looking to find a way out like shogun was in the third round. Machida out counters shogun. They both blocked alot of punches. Like I said. Shogun did not do enough. You have to press for the belt. Shogun never did that. The key is ..did enough. That was not done. Watch it again but this time think for yourself LOL.I’ve been watching since the early-days of the UFC, so I think I know a thing or two about effective aggressiveness. I don’t need the judges or commentators to tell me who won a fight. Also, many of the people on here probably watched the fight at a sports bar or, like I did, at a friends’ place and the most commentating gets drowned out because of all the noise, so your comment about getting brain washed by Rogen and Goldberg falls flat……

    Shogun landed 82 strikes Machida landed 42.
    These are the stats according to a site called fightmetric or something. I thought for myself DID YOU!!!!!!!!!!!. OBVIOUSLY NOT. To get it so badly wrong and be insulting about it. How stupid do you feel Icon. Landing nearly twice the strikes, hitting harder, doing more damage is not doing enough though…because you have been watching for such a long time and you know best. Better than 99.99999% of the entire world. Why do you think people are so pissed? Nearly twice as many strikes landed. Looking for a way out in rd 3!!? if he wants a way out he tapps or tells the ref he has had enough. I think he knows that. YOU ARE MISGUIDED.

  • MMA-LOGIC says:

    Sorry didn’t read properly Icon. I’ll kind of redirect that at Fight fan if I can.
    Sorry.

  • cocoonofhorror says:

    MMA-LOGIC: Sorry didn’t read properly Icon. I’ll kind of redirect that at Fight fan if I can.
    Sorry.

    i think Icon just doesnt understand the quote function, you were right the 1st time IMO.

  • Iconoclastic says:

    cocoonofhorror:
    i think Icon just doesnt understand the quote function, you were right the 1st time IMO.

    I think you should read an ENTIRE POST before you add your comments genius.

    MMA-LOGIC – No worries…… It is called Fightmetric.com. After the fight I checked out that site to confirm what I saw on T.V. (Shogun clearly winning the fight).

  • FightFan313 says:

    Icon. Please. Poser. I’ve watched since the begging as well. Doesn’t mean I know a anything about aggressiveness. I’ve watched at bars and friends houses and can still hear the commentating so your argument on that falls flat. To assume that every body out there watched in a place that was noisy the entire time falls flat. I am not here to assume. I saw a lot of really good counters by Machida and he did have Shogun on the fence in the third round and fight metric called that round close and in fact almost gave that round to Rua. they also said that machida dominated the second. They also think Machida landed only 4 total legs kicks the entire fight. I think Machida won. After the 49 kicks that fight metric has Rua landing Machida sure looked to be ok. Alot of shots were blocked by both fights in the fight. Bottom line I want to smoke what fight metric is smoking and talk about it lol. What you got IConClasic Poser.

  • FightFan313 says:

    MMA Logic ? IconClassic ? you guys are big on yourselves lol. What I meant by Sho was looking for a way out was this: he was up against the fence with a worried look on his face. If Machida would have kept pressing like he did against Rashad then he would have been in even more trouble. He was looking for a way not to get knockedand Machida stopped out because he was on the fence taking abuse..he Never had Machida in that kind of danger. I give props to show because he made Machida ? himself. This was Machida’s first Title defense ever on a main stage like the UFC. He has never been in that light b4 and the Great Shogun didn’t knock him out or even bloody Machida. Next time Machida will feel more comfortable. Come on. Coleman had Rua in trouble more than couple times in the last fight and he is 44 and had to drop over 30lbs for the fight and was land Punches on Rua. The old Coleman would have Crushed Rua. Rua fought a guys with some nerves. MMA Logic and IconClassic LOL.

  • FightFan313 says:

    Sorry guys . . lost my head a little bit. It’s just that I have watched the fight a couple times and I see Machida defending his belt. I have seen couple different stat quotes on her so obviously the match was hard to call.

  • Iconoclastic says:

    FightFan313: FightFan313 says:
    October 27, 2009 at 2:06 am (Quote)

    Icon. Please. Poser. I’ve watched since the begging as well. Doesn’t mean I know a anything about aggressiveness. I’ve watched at bars and friends houses and can still hear the commentating so your argument on that falls flat. To assume that every body out there watched in a place that was noisy the entire time falls flat. I am not here to assume. I saw a lot of really good counters by Machida and he did have Shogun on the fence in the third round and fight metric called that round close and in fact almost gave that round to Rua. they also said that machida dominated the second. They also think Machida landed only 4 total legs kicks the entire fight. I think Machida won. After the 49 kicks that fight metric has Rua landing Machida sure looked to be ok. Alot of shots were blocked by both fights in the fight. Bottom line I want to smoke what fight metric is smoking and talk about it lol. What you got IConClasic Poser.

    Hey D. Bag your the one that ASSUMED that everyone is being brainwashed by Rogan and Goldberg, which is ridiculous. My point that anyone who has been watching this sport for a long time (with a reasonable amount of intelligence, which I doubt you have) can probably tell you which fighter did enough to win a fight. “Machida looked fine.” Are you kidding me? Did you not watch the final two rounds? Machida had his mouth wide open (which I never seen before) and his movement was severely limited due to the kicks. Just jump on the Shogun bandwagon now because you’re going to do it anyway after the 2nd fight…………..

  • FightFan313 says:

    Iconoclastic:
    Hey D. Bag your the one that ASSUMED that everyone is being brainwashed by Rogan and Goldberg, which is ridiculous. My point that anyone who has been watching this sport for a long time (with a reasonable amount of intelligence, which I doubt you have)can probably tell you which fighter did enough to win a fight. “Machida looked fine.” Are you kidding me? Did you not watch the final two rounds? Machida had his mouth wide open (which I never seen before) and his movement was severely limited due to the kicks. Just jump on the Shogun bandwagon now because you’re going to do it anyway after the 2nd fight…………..

    Not gonna happen. So you can “probably tell which fighter won”. You don’t sound sure to me. Brainwashed by the come back kids past, Rogen and Goldberd. Shogun is a good guy. Machida did look fine to me. It was is first time as champ dude. Sho has been there b4 = comfortable. Leg kicks were taking there toll sure but Machida didn’t look tired that is fore sure. There is no way you can say that Machida looked like the same Machida of Silva and Evans and its not because Sho made him look bad. The second fight will be much different with you being seen on the Machida Bandwagen. Shogun will blow another knee b4 the next fight anyway. That was a stab btw.

  • MMApride19 says:

    FightFan313:
    Not gonna happen.So you can “probably tell which fighter won”.You don’t sound sure to me.Brainwashed by the come back kids past, Rogen and Goldberd.Shogun is a good guy.Machida did look fine to me. It was is first time as champ dude.Sho has been there b4 = comfortable.Leg kicks were taking there toll sure but Machida didn’t look tired that is fore sure.There is no way you can say that Machida looked like the same Machida of Silva and Evans and its not because Sho made him look bad. The second fight will be much different with you being seen on the Machida Bandwagen.Shogun will blow another knee b4 the next fight anyway. That was a stab btw.

    Hmmm after reading your comments… i have come to the conclusion that you are far too Machida biased… and are obviously a Machida nuthugger. Your comments make no sense at all. You said in one of your comments that when Machida had Shogun up against the fence.. Shogun was ‘scared’? Are you kidding me? Whenever Shogun tried to engage Machida with punches, Machida literally ran away. On multiple occasions. When Machida did it to Shogun, he literally blocked the punches.. rolled… and threw punches back. Traditional Muay Thai Technique… domt run.. but block and counter. He countered with one big strike (a right hook), that.. if you watch the fight again.. on the replay.. it rocked Machida abit.. and caused him to clinch up with Shogun. That strike was the most significant one in that flurry. The only one to do any damage. If you think Shogun is scared of gettimng ina brawl… you are severly mistaken. That is his bread and butter lol.

  • FightFan313 says:

    Machida runs when ever any other fighter throws punches lol. then he counters. You don’t know about Muay Thai..they never move in fights. They throw punches, elbows, knees and kicks and clinch. I’ve have never seen ever seen a Muay Thia fight roll LOL. That is a boxing technique. If you really think it is strategy for a Muay Thia fighter to get put up against the cage and start taking on a flury of punches or any fighter you are the Shogun comeback kid nuthugger lol. I saw the 1 punch you are talking about. The true line is that Machida did not put on the finish he did against evans = young fight in the spot light and the long long Great Shogun Rua did nothing to finish the fight which he would have done if mahcida was in any kind of trouble = NO BELT FOR RUA. I got all day to deal with rookies lol. Bring it!

  • cocoonofhorror says:

    Iconoclastic:

    seriously dude, learn to put your comments AFTER the quoted text. its really not that hard. genius.

  • FightFan313 says:

    cocoonofhorror:
    seriously dude, learn to put your comments AFTER the quoted text.its really not that hard.genius.

    Yes Icon sir. Thanks buddy 😀

  • Iconoclastic says:

    cocoonofhorror:
    seriously dude, learn to put your comments AFTER the quoted text.its really not that hard.genius.

    Seriously dude, some of us aren’t on here 24/7 like you. Get a life!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh yeah, and your earlier post “no, you dont” was very articulate btw.

    (Quote) FightFan 313- “Icon Classic” LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Learn English then come back & add your lame comments…………………

  • FightFan313 says:

    My life is right here buddies. what is this Iconoclastic ? some sort of underwear lol. I get it! you are those little wight tity Shogun wears lol. Nut hugger!! Now that is funny.

    Oh whoops. did I forget to add the quote.. my bad.

  • Iconoclastic says:

    FightFan313: My life is right here buddies. what is this Iconoclastic ? some sort of underwearlol.I get it! you are those little wight tity Shogun wears lol.Nut hugger!!Now that is funny.
    Oh whoops.did I forget to add the quote.. my bad.

    Wow, your English is TERRIBLE. It”s obvious that you just came off of a banana boat. I think you don’t like Shogun because he used to (in Pride) stomp the crap out of fighters that look like you.

    “Nut hugger!!” -thats what YOU were called because you got a crush on Machida. You probably drink your own piss like he does………………….

  • FightFan313 says:

    Iconoclastic:
    Wow, your English is TERRIBLE. It”s obvious that you just came off of a banana boat. I think you don’t like Shogun because he used to (in Pride) stomp the crap out of fighters that look like you.
    “Nut hugger!!” -thats what YOU were called because you got a crush on Machida. You probably drink your own piss like he does………………….

    Would never drink my own piss lol even though there are health benefits to drinking it. My sentence structure is terrible sure and I don’t get all my words in type, but the english fine. Which is why I don’t write books or work for the news paper lol. I’ve got a man crush on Machida yep, consider him a idol. He has the best finishing knockout in UFC history. Oh .. Banana’s are necessary for a athlete 😀 Keep up the good work champ.

  • FightFan313 says:

    “A history of the Light Heavyweight Championship shows just how reluctant the judges are to change the title over via decision, and that may alleviate some of the angst hanging out there. The title has actually changed hands just once when the decision was given to the judges (Griffin def. Jackson at UFC 86). The only other time a title fight in the Light Heavyweight Division changed hands by decision was…wait for it…NEVER. Tito Ortiz claimed a vacant title by decision, and lost a decision to Couture that unified the titles.

    A champion loses his title in this division by getting the crap kicked out of him, and while Machida was bleeding, battered and bruised, he was still standing and able to defend himself. If you compare this fight to the unanimous decision that stripped Rampage Jackson of his title, then it’s not even close. Griffin had Jackson on the ropes, fighting for his life, the entire fight. Did Rua? Not really”. Learn the game fellas.

  • FightFan313 says:

    “Shogun let up in the final round. Hell, Rua even admitted it, stating that he didn’t try to close the fight because he thought he was ahead on the scorecards.

    Ahead on the scorecards?! Are you freaking kidding me? If you’re going to be a champion, you knock the champ out. Rua thought he could take the title by points and excuse me if that’s not the champion that I want holding the belt proudly. The champion I want is the one who immediately offered a rematch to the guy who nearly took him to the cleaners. Thankfully, that’s the fighter who’s still holding the Light Heavyweight Championship.” I say it again. Learn the game fellas. FightFan313.

  • Jstew3785 says:

    FightFan313: “Shogun let up in the final round. Hell, Rua even admitted it, stating that he didn’t try to close the fight because he thought he was ahead on the scorecards.Ahead on the scorecards?! Are you freaking kidding me? If you’re going to be a champion, you knock the champ out. Rua thought he could take the title by points and excuse me if that’s not the champion that I want holding the belt proudly. The champion I want is the one who immediately offered a rematch to the guy who nearly took him to the cleaners. Thankfully, that’s the fighter who’s still holding the Light Heavyweight Championship.” I say it again. Learn the game fellas. FightFan313.

    Wow, and if we don’t learn the game, we can count on you teaching us about 100 times a day.

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