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5 Oz. of Pain Presents: The DUEL

Welcome to the latest edition of the Duel. This week we will be previewing some bouts from UFC 88 as well as some news from the week. Keep in mind questions are made at the beginning of the week so very recent news is sometimes missed. My opponent this week in the Duel, an editor from Mr. Randy Harrison. Let us DUEL!

1. Randy Couture will stop Brock Lesnar in their bout at UFC 91.

Harrison: FALSE. If Couture is able to win, and that is a VERY big if, he’s going to have to ride out a decision. Brock showed that he’s learned to stay out of situations where he can be submitted and I don’t think with his giant head that he would have much of an issue with getting hit. There are some guys that you look at and you can just tell that they can take a hell of a punch and Brock just seems too damn stubborn to go down from one shot. That means that Couture would have to get a takedown and work for a choke, since that’s the main submission that Couture knows how to use. I would be very hard-pressed to find a way that Couture is able to take Lesnar’s back, let alone take him down to begin with. I see this fight being Couture trying to use a similar gameplan to the one he used against Tim Sylvia, but Lesnar is just too strong and too good a wrestler for that. With nearly 50 or 60 pounds in weight by bell time, Lesnar is going to take Couture down and ride him for twenty-five minutes. I don’t think it’s terribly exciting and the place will probably be booing like hell, but that’s how I see it going.

Huckaby: TRUE. A win over Heath Herring doth not make one a BJJ expert. To be fair neither is Couture but he could stop him in a couple of ways. Couture might not be Mir on the ground (though unlike Lesnar, he could avoid them) but Couture is crafty and should be able to pull off some type of submission he’s working on or TKO. The most interesting part of this being a HW title fight would be the fact it could go 25 minutes and we know neither one of these guys are expected to gas. That means five full rounds of Couture being able to work for something and using his ridiculous amount of experience to get it. Most people didn’t expect him to beat Sylvia, most people didn’t expect him to beat Gonzaga, but he did it. That might be Couture’s problem though, he’s going to be expected to defeat Lesnar and he rarely performs when that happens. Not to mention another year lay off and another year of age. It will be an interesting one and get a huge buyrate but if I have to pick right now (and this could change) I’ll go with Couture over Mr. 2-1.

2. Rashad Evans has a 40% chance of beating Chuck Liddell.

Harrison: FALSE. Even with this being a Liddell that’s lost two out of his last three, he tends to eat wrestlers alive. Granted, Evans has better striking than most wrestlers, but he’s still a wrestler. When he gets into trouble or takes the first big shot from Liddell, he’s going to revert back to his wrestling and he’s going to try to get the fight to the ground. If it comes to that, it’s a story we’ve seen over and over again where Liddell just shrugs off the takedowns and slugs away as his opponent gets back to his feet. If Evans isn’t able to control the fight and keep Chuck at a distance in the same way that Keith Jardine was able to, his chances will be roughly in the 5% range because anything can happen in a fight. If he’s able to control the pace, keep Chuck out of range from throwing his wild haymakers and is able to show that he’s the one controlling the pace, even working the same leg kick strategy, I’d say it jumps to about 25%. To have Evans up at about a 40% or 50% chance, he’d have to actually be able to get Liddell down to the mat, and I really don’t see that happening unless Chuck’s hamstring isn’t at 100%.

Huckaby: TRUE. You pretty much made every point humanly possibly and I can’t disagree with any of it. I just think Evans will go in with the right idea and use Jardine’s plan, they’re still training with the same folks, right? As Caplan and others have spoken of, keeping the distance and not pushing the action on Chuck is the way to go. Chuck couldn’t even KO “Had a problem with Houston Alexander and Wanderlei Silva” Jardine, remember? Chuck does eat wrestlers alive but Rashad is a smart fighter (hence the record) and I think he’ll come to the fight with the right gameplan. Do I expect him to win? No. But it also wouldn’t surprise me if Chuck Liddell can’t finish him like he used to be able to. If I predict a fight to go to a decision I have to argue with you and put him at 40% to get the job done.

3. The trash talk between the Slice and Rogers camps is childish at best.

Harrison: TRUE. Childish at best is about the best way this could have been worded. At this point, with no fight on the horizon between the two, this comes off as two groups of guys posturing in the street, trying to look tough, but not really wanting to do anything about it. I would say that Rogers wants Kimbo more than Kimbo wants Rogers at this point in his career but that hasn’t stopped Kimbo’s camp from trying to get personal and take shots at Rogers’ past. To me, I would say that Rogers’ first post was actually the only thing out of the whole feud that made sense. Outside of the cursing and swearing, he was right about the fight between Slice and Shamrock being a joke and that EliteXC is going out of their way to coddle and protect Slice. Everything after from the tire pictures to the marijuana references was and is childish and sadly, it will probably get worse before it gets better.

Huckaby: TRUE. I think you’re correct on all counts here and it’s sad it must come to this level of statement for it to happen. Posturing and trash talking have their place if you’re someone like Nick Diaz and you (a) know he’s crazy, (b) will fight any one any time. These are two guys camps are responding as if they’re fighting themselves. Rogers is correct that he deserved Slice next. Rogers beat down James Thompson only to see Thompson get a main event against Slice. Then on the next event we see Kimbo fight a completely out of luck Ken Shamrock who will probably fall like a ton of bricks in seconds. But seriously, showing the picture of Rogers pushing a tire and talking about his old day job is downright pathetic coming from a former street fighter and a bunch of mentally unstable cronies that jump up and down in the background hoping for a little of his fame and money. Repairing tires isn’t only more rewarding for society than street fighting but street fighting is actually more rewarding for society than jumping up and down behind the street fighter rooting for him and wearing his t-shirt. I wish I had a posse so whenever someone made a negative comment about me on this site all 12 of them could flame “HE KILL YOU SON WHAT WHAT SON U GAY” and always have my back. The funny thing is Team Kimbo isn’t even skilled enough to hold one of Brett Rogers’ old jobs.


4. With a win over Matt Hamill on Saturday, Rich Franklin should stay at 205lbs.

Huckaby: TRUE. If Anderson Silva stays at middleweight there is really no reason for Franklin to not move to 205. Of course the major problem there lies in the fact he loses that massive size and strength advantage he’s used to having while pushing his opponents around the cage. He fights larger MWs like Silva and Okami and doesn’t look good at all so fighting guys even slightly bigger than him could be a problem. I can’t help but think moving to 205 is a ridiculously hard challenge for him but I think it’s one he has to make if he wants to reinvent himself. Not that he needs to, people should stop talking about him like he’s dead. He’s still a top elite fighter in the world.

Harrison: TRUE. What other choice does he have really? He’s been whipped like a rented mule by Anderson twice and what is the point of staying in a division if you can’t ever advance past being second best. He loses the size and strength advantage he had, but if he’s able to offset that by bulking up a little and adding some speed, it might work out alright for him. There are some interesting match-ups there for him at 205 against guys like Liddell or maybe even a re-match against Machida, which could be a good fight if Franklin can use his clinch game to keep Machida within reach. It’s going to be telling to see how he reacts to being in there with Hamill on Saturday night. If Franklin can handle being the smaller man, avoid being bullied and taken down at will, and use his athletic ability that he showed at 185, this could be a good move up for him. If he’s pushed around and manhandled by the larger man and unable to get any offense going, he essentially becomes a man that is screwed in two divisions in the UFC and is left with two options. Ride out his contract and move elsewhere, or drop to 170 and fight as a skeleton and as good as Franklin is at cutting weight, I don’t see him being able to get down to 170 and not croak.

5. Martin Kampmann will defeat Nate Marquardt on Saturday.

Huckaby: TRUE. This is rough to answer as Kampmann hasn’t exactly seen the very top of competition but he’s a prospect of prospects. I have to say I’m a massive fan of these two and I’m probably looking forward to this fight the most on the card. I’ll openly admit I picked Marquard to beat Anderson Silva when they fought as I just thought he was hand picked to beat him. Here you havea guy in Kampmann, though to a lesser degree, that reminds you of Anderson Silva and unless Marquardt can take position and control (like I thought he could vs. Silva) I see the fight ending much the same way. Martin’s standup has been shown to maybe not be so unstoppable of late but if he can stay off of his back taking punishment for fifteen minutes he should probably win.

Harrison: FALSE. Marquardt could have won the Thales Leites fight if he hadn’t been struck with both bad luck and a total brain cramp to lose the two points that cost him the bout. Kampmann has a ton of punching power and actually has some submissions on the mat as well (arm triangle anyone?), but Marquardt has an innate ability to shut down strikers not named Anderson Silva, just with his style. It’s not incredibly fluid standing up, which keeps his opponents off-balance and sets them up to be taken to the mat, where Marquardt usually tends to be in control. Kampmann needs to keep this fight standing, there’s no two ways about it. If he does, he wins, but I think that Marquardt will be too strong and too tough on the takedowns and he’ll either submit Kampmann late or ride out a decision.

6. Jacare is the odds on favorite to win the DREAM MWGP this month.

Huckaby: TRUE. Mousasi might actually look the best right now but the fact is Jacare is almost a sure winner over Zelg Galesic at some point and that already puts him into the finals. Now once in the finals can he defeat Mousasi or Manhoef? That’s a good question that I’m not sure I have an answer for. But as of now I have to take the guy that’s almost guaranteed a shot in the finals over two guys who will be brutally battling it out for the other spot. Or knowing Japanese Grand Prix tournaments can I pick like Dong Sik Yoon to be a surprise sub in the finals and win? Basically I give Jacare a 92% chance of being in the finals and since I can’t give those odds to either Mousasi or Manhoef to even make it there I can’t take them as a favorite.

Harrison: TRUE. If I had to rank the four men remaining in the order of who I think will win, I’d start with Jacare, then Mousasi, then Manhoef, with Galesic pulling up the rear. Manhoef and Galesic both have the mythical “puncher’s chance,” with Manhoef having more power and bullheaded destructiveness. Mousasi is more of the total package, but still comes up short on the ground against a master like Jacare. People question Jacare’s chin since he’s never been touched by a huge shot, but it looks like his stand-up is geared towards avoiding being hit with bombs, closing the distance and getting the fight to the ground. Jacare could submit either Manhoef or Galesic in the first round, I’m fairly certain, and while it would be a bit more difficult and could result in a decision win, I could see him controlling Mousasi and winning a very technical ground battle. If he can avoid getting hurt, the only question about this tournament should be how easy Jacare’s win will be.

That does it for another edition of the Duel. Join us next week when two new MMA writers battle it out for your approval. As always feel free to leave positive or negative comments regarding any answers.

  • Nick Travaglini says:

    Great job as always Huckaby. I love this segment.

  • Nate says:

    I just dont think Randy has enough submission experience to make a difference. I dont think this is a good matchup for him. Both fighters are smart, stick with well thought out game plans, and train with sick dedication, so Randy does not have an edge.

  • Mike A says:

    Randys got it

  • JoHn says:

    I cant believe you didnt mention Hendo, has everyone forgotten about Hendo, he wasnt given the same tune up fights as the other pride guys that came over. He fought rampage and then Anderson Silva. Give the guy some limelight

  • JoHn says:

    I picked Randy over Sylvia and Gonzaga, but i just dont think he’s got this one, I think there are way too many similarities in these 2 fighters, and i think Brock has the more effective striking game, Brock is very aggressive and pretty freaking accurate with his striking, and a better overall much larger wrestler than Couture, but I am not counting “the natural” out on this one, but it is going to be alot closer than I would hope. GO RANDY

  • jim smith says:

    Does Randy know any other submissions besides the choke?

  • Jay K. says:

    I also pick Randy over Lesnar via a similar type of finish. Randy is a healthier Frank Mir who will look for a submission type finish as attempting to avoid the stand up is Randy’s best option. I see this going to the ground and Randy performing a submission win.

    Regarding Rogers and his grade school mentality. He’s just a street brawler like Kimbo with less discipline. His fight with John Murphy actually had Murphy exchanging the better punches until Brett found an opening. I was actually rootin’ for this Rogers to win then! That stated, Rogers has nothing for Kimbo, that I don’t see Kimbo winning this as a stand up fight between the two if Elite XC is around long enough. This potential fight would result in a highlight reel for Kimbo.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    I have to go with Huck as always. but i do think chuck is going to lose and the Huck didnt go that far as to saying that.

  • JoHn says:

    Chuck lose, i think not, Chuck cant lose this one, he shouldnt have lost against jardine, if that fight ever happened again he wouldnt

  • dsid says:

    I don’t see Randy finishing Lesnar from his back, which is exactly where he’s going to be. I think Harrison pegged this one right. I’d say we’re in for a very boring fight, with Randy wanting to keep it on the feet, but not being able to, and Lesnar not being able to pound Randy out on the ground.

    Of course, five rounds of lay and pray is about my worst nightmare for a fight, but I think that’s what we’re going to see. There’s always the possibility of someone landing the perfect shot to end it, but my crystal ball says we’re headed for a full half hour of boring fight.

    This is really just about the worst possible match-up for Randy. The only thing working against Lesnar is his inexperience. 3 or 4 more fights into his career and I wouldn’t give Randy better than a 10% chance of winning.

  • JJ Docker says:

    Nice piece.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    really, i think chuck will lose. he didnt look that great against wandy if u recall. atleast i thought so, especially seeing him take wandy down to run out the clock. i think evens just has a better motor than chuck ,at least at this point in their lives

  • ctownhood says:

    How do you choke a guy with no visible neck? just wondering 😉

  • Bill says:

    I agree with John, Jardine wouldn’t beat Chuck again. Chuck and Rashad will be a good fight this Saturday. Also, I don’t give Randy much of a chance against Brock. Brock has said before, and recently said again, that Randy is not a true heavyweight, and he’s right. Randy may last awhile because of Brocks style. If you notice, fighters will take a few shots from the bottom to better there position, but thats not the case with Brocks punches. NO one can take this guys power. Werdum, or any other submission artist would make for a much harder fight for Brock. Any fighter that is a wrestler, and only has a ground and pound style, Brock will beat.

  • warcry says:

    This is the best time for Randy to defeat Brock. A couple of fights from now Lesnar will be an unstoppable monster with no holes in his game. At this time Brock still has significant weaknesses. I’m giving it to Randy Couture via Veteran Moxy.

  • warcry says:

    Also Dan Henderson does deserve some love. I was dissappointed that the Countdown program for 88 didn’t feature him. He is 0-2 since his return to the Ufc but, Rampage and Silva are as tough as it gets. This fight might be the best fight on the entire card. We shall see

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    i just dont get how anyone could bet against randy in this fight. the man always finds a way to win except when he’s being thumbed in the eyes

  • JoHn says:

    My picks for the 3 main card fights are, Brock Lesnar (unfortunately) I just dont think Randy has the intimidation factor that he has had in his past fights, Chuck Liddell (because Rashad is just not in his league) who has he really fought, a washed up Ortiz (to a draw a fight Tito would have won if he hadnt grabbed the cage), an up and coming Bisping., sean salmon by crazy head kick ( although nice for highlite reel), and Hendo just because he has to and he is one of the greats

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    john, who has chuck beaten then? its not a whose who of elete mma. tiger white? Babbalou with his insane game plan? and dont say wandy, he layed and prayed in that one and it was close.

  • JoHn says:


  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    yes i have and chuck took the easy way out in the 3rd round. he feared getting ktfo’d by a knee or punch. did u see him watching that clock? all im saying is is that Chuck is off a step and thats all it takes to get your ass kicked by rashad. the dude is good. he beat Jardean and Chuck didnt. guess we’ll see tommorow.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    chuck was watching that clock like the way a Kmart employee watches their clock, hoping that the day will end

  • JoHn says:

    as far as the take down at the end of the third, i think he was just showboating, it was classic, i literally jumped out of my seat when he did it, he did it basically to say he was in control of the fight, and he could was setting the pace, which he was, wandy is one of the greats and that was a fight we all wanted to see and the better fighter won. so yes chuck has fought the whos who as you put it joe.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    John , please respond back to these posts when Chuck has left your office and is no longer looking over your shoulder and you can respond in an honest fashion. seriously, showboating? please take the Chuck penis out of your mouth. ( :

  • JoHn says:

    all i can get from your comments joe is that your not an mma fan, you are a chuck hater, which i dont get. his fights are never boring to say the least and if all you have to base rashad evans on is his victory over jardine and his boring ass fight against tito, or even his (i hate saying this) but fluke (although timed perfectly) of a head kick against salmon, oh by the way you do know chuck beat randy couture twice right. you have picked randy to beat brock, but you pick rashad over chuck, not much logic there… not even randy couture could get chuck down but you think rashad can,,,,,, hmmmm im confused, and the ground is the only place i see rashad having a slim chance

  • JoHn says:

    as always someone who is showed to be wrong has to pull the nutthugger card,,, brush up on your knowledge little man and get back to me, i had schooling sessions between the hours of 11 am – and 3 pm, you can sign up for my course at [email protected], thank you for your time JOE

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    john, let me see a fight where chucks fingers are not in Randy eyes, please. listen, im not a chuck hater, i just know when a guy is passed his prime. Chuck is nearing his fat elvis stage of his legacy

    As for Brock, I am a huge Lesnar fan coming from being a longtime wrestling fan. But beating heath is a job requirment and this point.How can you pick a guy with 3 pro figts to beat an mma legend? yes he has the looks and the tools but hes not ready for randy. if all was fair, he would fight Napal or Hardok.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    please john. you are a legend in you and your moms own mind

  • JoHn says:

    joe seriously, you have to stop this, you have no logical thinking in this fight that we are having, fingers in the eye, cmon, lets not go there, its not like it was a finger in the eye like the one lawler gave to smith, i mean seriously people like you always have to come up with some excuse as to why their fav. fighters lose a fight, i didnt say rampage got lucky or it was a fluke when he ko’d chuck or when serra beat gsp, or when gsp beat hughes the first time, i just said the better fighter on that night won, yes i think if jardine and chuck fought again chuck would win, chuck was in a slump. even the best of the best have a bad day especially this and last year with all the upsets

  • Ken says:

    randy needs to slam a knee in brock’s head, when brock goes for those ferocious double leg take downs. or get the hell out of the way. brock is a wrecking ball with skills, but randy’s superior gamesmanship and experience can win out. i can’t believe randy would even take this fight unless he thought he had a very good chance of winning.

    win or lose this one, brock has a great future. probably the marketable (to the general public) persona in the UFC.

  • JoHn says:

    also your logic with jardine and chuck, and rashad beating jardine, the same can be said about chuck beating wandy and wandy beating jardine,NEXT

  • JoHn says:

    we could go all day on the “six degrees of seperation” mma style, hahaha

  • For anyone viewing this in the last 5 minutes my apologies. I tried to edit one link and it added about 800 lines of random HTML throughout the article I had to go through and remove.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    John, I dont think you understand, I like Chuck, I would not be surprised if he wins. he by all means should win. his style is made to beat sugar. I am no Chuck or mma “hater” as you put it. I’m just playing point-counterpoint. I do have the right to say that Chuck’s last 3 fights hasnt been all that recently. he is coming off a BAD injury that really messes people up. and he is known to be a little lax when it comes to training. all that said i think he could seriously lose this one and i wouldnt be surprised at all. can u see my point?

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    john, look a few lines up too. ken digresses about the Brock-randy fight better than I.

  • JoHn says:

    of course i can see your point, especially this last year and a half, but to say rashad is going to win is rediculous, rashad has no stylistic credibility to justify him beating chuck, he has shorter reach, he wont be able to take him down, and he isnt as well versed in striking as chuck or even wandy, and wandy couldnt drop chuck

  • JoHn says:

    i agree with you and ken, i am not saying that randy wont and cant beat Brock, i just think the only chance for him to win is his veteran knowledge and training for a specific fight the way he always does, nobody wanted to see Randy back as much as me,, i just dont like the match up, but thats what makes Randy the superior force that he has been in all these years, he has never picked and chosen his oponents he fights whoever whenever

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    ok, john. we can shit talk about the fight early sunday morning. but can you argue about my Yoshida, Ace and Nate picks?

  • JoHn says:

    harrison and huckaby eat your heart out, Its the john and Joe show

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    lol- im still cracking up at my Chuck is at his fat elvis stage of his carear

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    so sweet, the duel within the duel.

  • JoHn says:

    i didnt see your picks on those fights

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    those are my picks Yoshida over Karo, Nate over kamp and Ace over Hammer

  • JoHn says:

    i agree with ace over hammill, but not so much on marquardt beating kampmann, i pick kamp, and karo, but i think mostly i picked karo because i think he has to win or he will be going away

  • JoHn says:


  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    sucks i wanted to see that 1

  • Rich S. says:

    good duel.

  • HexRei says:

    I think you guys should let me in on one of these duels. I’ll become the Brock Lesnar of sports journalism, seemingly unqualified but brutally good at it!

  • darkmetal says:

    If I were advising Lesnar, I would tell him to work on getting full mount, and then using his massive upper body strength to destroy Couture. Of course there is a possibility of a reversal from mount, but I think what would be an ideal strategy for lesnar is, rather than a rear naked choke, to work on some sort of a neck crank choke. His power could put out quite a few opponents in that position, and he doesn’t need an ideal arm position to twist someone’s head until the blood is cut off.

    Now if I was advising Couture, which I would doubt would even be necessary, I would be hard pressed to work on rotating out of the way, kicking for the lower body, and repeating. If he could score enough kicks, he would rack up points, and also slow down Lesnar’s charge. However, even slowed, Lesnar will be a faster heavyweight than any Randy has ever fought, so it might still not work. But, if he can get Lesnar a bit wobbly, he might have a chance to dirty box him. But with the size of Lesnar’s head, I suspect he will not be able to KO him.

    In the end, I think it will be a situation of Lesnar grabbing Couture, who will fight to control him, and he will slam him to the ground. Further, I really think Couture’s attempt to keep the fight standing might end in a full slam and KO of Randy….watch for it.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    ok john, fights over and as i predicted chuck got his ass thumped.i think u owe me my props


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