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Was I the only one who thought Rampage won?

I will have a full breakdown of my thoughts on UFC 86 later today after I get some sleep and take some time to do a full writeup.

But before I hit the sack, I just wanted to ask if I was the only one out there who scored today’s main event 49-46 in favor of Quinton Jackson?

I thought it was an amazing fight and that Forrest Griffin fought the best fight of his career. A lot of the rounds were extremely close, but I felt that Jackson stole rounds three and four because he landed more power shots.

The kicks landed by Griffin took their toll and scored points, but at the end of the day, I think a power shot to the face is worth more. Forrest’s head jilted back on several occasions and Jackson not only cut him, but opened up the cut further.

I scored the first round 10-9 Jackson (I was about to give it to Forrest until the knockdown); the second round 10-9 Griffin (I need to re-watch the round though because I almost felt like it might have been a 10-8 round in favor of Griffin); round 3 I had 10-9 in favor of Jackson (it was a tough call though); round 4 was again 10-9 Jackson; and the final round I had 10-9 Jackson.

I will re-watch the fight tomorrow. Maybe I am completely wrong. There’s a reason why I’m a writer/fan and not a judge. I just wanted to see if there is anyone else out there who scored the fight the same way I did.

137 COMMENTS
  • Albert says:

    NO……….

  • John Edkins says:

    No, you are a fool. It was a close match but the second round definitely went to Griffin 10-8.

  • Paul Balsom says:

    Yes.

  • Owen says:

    naw i had it 3 rounds to 2 for forrest. i felt he landed more shots and controlled most of the fight.

  • mike wolfe says:

    Rampage’s rep. as a knock-out artist worked against him, imo. He didn’t really seem to hurt Griffin, which creates some momentum for Griffin. Add the dominant second and the accumulated damage from Griffin’s leg kicks, and yeah, I think Griffin legitimately won.

  • blah says:

    i had the fight scored for griffin. i thought the most rampage could have hoped for is a draw because i had the 2nd round 10-8.

  • Paul Balsom says:

    Rampage got peppered the whole fight, left himself open for lots of sub attempts, got his knee messed up, and his down and pound was pretty well negated… plus his one takedown was him getting pulled down to the top by Forrest.

  • MrNiceGuyMMA says:

    Yes Sam you are the only one. Or at least the only one who should know better. Please, with your current position within the MMA community dont do yourself a disservice and be blinded by who YOU wanted to win. Watch the fight again with an open no biased mind and you shall see who won… who cleary won and that is the man who has the belt.

  • The Legend says:

    I am feeling the same way you are and probably need to watch the fight again too. I wonder what they will do next with both guys. Maybe Jackson faces either Shogun or Wanderlei Silva, or does an immediate rematch with Forrest, and maybe Forrest has a match with Lyoto Machida(even though he has said he doesn’t want to) or as I previously said do a rematch with Rampage because I can’t think of anybody else that deserves a title shot right now.

  • Detonator says:

    Forrest outscored, out-strategized and controlled the entire fight. Quinton landed some great combinations and without the injury to his knee probably would have won the fight. But Quinton said it best when he stated that, “I got my ass whooped!” I did feel the scoring was closer than what the judges scored it but they fortunately made the right decision! Thank God Cecil wasn’t a judge!

  • Hurtch says:

    You absolutely nailed it Caplan. That is 100% how I saw this fight. I’m gonna rewatch this tomorrow, but there is no way in hell Forrest one 4 of those rounds.

  • myke says:

    RAMPAGE WON.

  • Jester says:

    I had the fight scored a draw…

    Here is my scorecard…

    Round 1 Rampage 10-9
    Round 2 Forrest 10-8
    Round 3 Rampage 10-9
    Round 4 Rampage 10-9
    Round 5 Forrest 10-9

    Rampage 47
    Forrest 47

  • Jordan says:

    I had it 49-47 Griffin, the 2nd was 10-8.

  • Gary says:

    R1: 10-9 Rampage (b/c of the near KO)
    R2: 10-8 Forrest (complete control of the entire round)
    R3: 10-9 Forrest (hardest round to call)
    R4: 10-9 Rampage (Rampage controlled the action with power shots)
    R5: 10-9 Forrest

    48-46 Griffin

    In the fifth Forrest controlled the ring and the action. I can’t see how the fifth could have been judged any other way. But the 3rd and 4th were extremely close. It was a good fight and there will definitely be a rematch at some point and time.

  • Smith says:

    As an above poster said you’re going to have to watch the fight with an unbiased perspective because Griffin clearly won at least 3 of the rounds with one being an easy 10-8. I could argue that he won 4 of the 5 as well.

  • xx2000xx says:

    With that 10-8 round, simply no. Watch the fight w/o audio, and watch that round again.

    But it should be highly interesting to see the judges score cards if they get released…..

  • I actually had it 47-47, and I hate draws. I had Rampage winning 1, 3 and 4 each with a score of 10-9, and I had Forrest winning 2 (10-8) and 5 (10-9). I was surprised when the scores came out like they did, so maybe I need to watch again as well. I was really surprised that Rampage’s footwork was so off in the first couple of rounds, though. And the look on his face after round one seemed to give away that he didn’t expect much of a fight tonight.

  • Bryan says:

    #8, I think that Rampage will probably end up fighting Shogun or Wandy and if Chuck beats Rashad they’ll give him a farewell title shot. If he doesn’t get past Rashad then maybe a Rashad v. Lyoto #1 contender fight. Personally I think that they need to do a Thiago Silva v. Lyoto fight to determine a #1 contender. I think TS could run over most of the LHW division.

  • Paul Balsom says:

    I can agree with #4 Mike when he said Rampage’s reputation as a devastating power punching maybe scored against him when Forrest was crumbling every time he connected. He connected with several flush punches and only the one uppercut did its job, so maybe the judges saw those punches as way less powerful than they were in the moment.

  • marc says:

    I had the exact same assesment Sam! Everything from Forrest winning 2 and 5, Rampage winning 3 and stealing 1 with the takedown. Round 4 was a tossup with me giving it to Rampage because of power shots. And this from a guy who won some pretty good money on Forrest tonight!! After the fight Rampage sure looked like he knew he lost though. Either way great fight..

  • Dylandresdad says:

    I also had forest winning round 2 10-8 and round five which would make it a draw. There were 5 other people watching with me and we all had it 47-47. I thought that they may give it to the champ though. I did think Forest was more of the aggressor from the 2nd round on though.

  • Paul Balsom says:

    #13, so Forrest mashing Rampage in the face for an entire 5 minutes doesn’t count as 10-8? Rampage may not have landed a punch or kick in the entire round. That’s pretty sorry.

  • I had it 47-47. I gave Rampage rounds 1, 3, and 4. Forrest won Rounds 2 and 5. I scored round 2 10-8. I cant believe the 49-46 score for Forrest. Just goes to show how people judge MMA differently. It also shows that you better close your opponent out, becasue when it goes to the judges anything can happen.

  • ryan says:

    Sam, your writing is next to godliness but even cecil peoples wouldnt score that fight for Rampage. Hail to the new chief and its about time .

  • Nick says:

    Sam, I scored this for rampage as well, and even wrote it in an email to my friend to prove it. I think this was closer than the 2 and 3 point margin they gave forrest. I need someone to explain this to me.

  • Ian says:

    Even giving the second round to Forrest 10-8, I honestly had Rampage winning all other 4 rounds 10-9.

    This would equate a Rampage victory.

    Worst case scenario this fight was a draw.

  • patrick says:

    It seems that alot of people are giving round 3 to Rampage for some reason.I obviously gave it to Forrest for the fact that he hurt Rampage with his leg kicks and(Rampage) was forced to shoot to recover.i had Forrest winning rnd 2 10-8 and also winning rnds 3 and 5 10-9. 48-46 if i’m not mistaken.Me and my buddies were gonna holler fix and mafia if Rampage won!!!Sam talks about Forrest taking shots but I never felt he was in any serious trouble. if anthing he was a little hesitant to fully engage Rampage on his feet but still stayed with his gameplan and fought a close , tough fight.

  • Kogepan says:

    Page got what he deserved, same as Shogun. They thought Forrest was a punk, didn’t take the fight serious and now some TUF guy is the champion of UFC.

  • Sinister says:

    I thought it was a clear win for Griffin. But, I am nowhere near qualified to judge

  • xx2000xx says:

    I have a feeling the fightmetic guy with all of his stats is having an orgasm right now :)

  • smead says:

    Here’s how I scored the fight:

    r1 page 10-9
    r2 forrest 10-8
    r3 page 10-9
    r4 page 10-9
    r5 forrest 10-9

    total 47-47 draw

    On the one hand, I do believe that in a close fight, the champ should get the nod… on the other, you can’t leave it in the hands of the judges because you never know they’ll see it… the reason I gave rounds 3&4 to rampage is because he hurt forrest more times (i.e. he was closer to ending the fight) However, if you get some boxing judges in there, they will give rounds to guys who land more often, even if they’re not very damaging.

    I was impressed by both fighters. Forrest took some shots that would’ve put away most fighters. Page probably fought with torn ligaments after the 2nd.

  • Jeremy says:

    Personally I had it as a draw, Griffin 10-8 rd 2 and 10-9 rd 5, jackson I gave the rest.

  • Matt says:

    You have a great way of looking at it but I would score the last round for Griffin resulting in a draw. Here’s how I look at the fight overall

    When I think Griffin, I think more shots.

    When I think Rampage, I think significant shots.

  • Itshisownfault says:

    I had the fight scored a draw as Jester wrote. However, I realize that because the fight was extremely close and Forrest pushed the pace and was more active most of the fight others can see Forrest winning. Overall if you don’t look at it round by round I think Forrest won. So regardless of the individual round scoring having some potential flaws I think the right person won.

    IMHO – Forrest had a good game plan and executed it. Rampage, IMHO, didn’t come in the shape he should have and because of that he didn’t look sharp and couldn’t execute like he needed to. I think Rampage should have been more aggressive than he was and Forrest did exactly what he needed to.

  • Perry says:

    come on if you can not see a Rampage victory you are blined by the hype of the ufc Forest promotions. The knee injury was bs there is no way a guy can have a knee injury and you 1 put ice on his thigh (watch it again) and two the way he transfered his weight on to his leg is wrong for a knee injury. Here we go again another joke of a combat sport like boxing. Hopfully Affliction can let the fighters fight

  • Nick says:

    one more thing, At worst I had this a draw if you scored the second round 10-8. I am also going to rewatch it tomorrow and then write up a final review.

  • ACK! says:

    I don’t really bother with scoring, but I thought Forest clearly controlled the pace of the fight and probably did more overall damage all things considered. He dominated on the ground and more than held his own in the standup by constantly pushing forward and displaying more variety. Rampage definitely caught him with a few hard shots to the head and body, but I don’t think he did enough damage to take the fight. Not when Forest basically took the fight wherever he wanted it and prevented Rampage from doing anything whatsoever on the ground.

    Eitherway, you knew they would give it to Griffen if it went the distance because it validates him as a top-ten fighter and sets up a great rematch.

  • patrick says:

    Griffin was never in trouble and forced to “bail out” and shoot on Rampage. Forrest tore his leg up with those kicks and Quinton had to shoot to recover. Rampage could barely walk or stand by the end of the match. DEFINITE ligament damage.

  • DPK says:

    RD 1- 10-9 Rampage (This was for Forrest until the knockdown)
    RD 2- 10-8 Forrest (I was surprised he didn’t do even more damage)
    RD 3- 10-9 Forrest (Close round, but I though Forrest did more)
    RD 4- 10-9 Rampage
    RD 5- 10-9 Forrest (Forrest pulled away as the round went on)

    48-46 Forrest on my card. The 3rd round was the closest round in my opinion, and even if that went to Rampage, I would have seen it as a draw. I thought Forrest only got rocked bad a few times, and usually just circled out, or responded with his own strikes. Maybe it was group think, but everyone (5 other people) I watched with agreed that Forrest won.

  • Cicero says:

    Here is what Meltzer just posted on his site about the scoring breakdown round-by-round for each of the official ringside judges, to wit:

    “Adalaide Byrd who scored it 48-46, gave 4 and 5 to Jackson and Griffin 1, 2 and 3 with 2 as 10-8

    Nelson Hamilton had it 48-46 with 1 and 4 for Jackson, and Griffin getting 2 10-8

    Roy Silbert had it 49-46 with only round 4 for Jackson.”

    2 out of 3 of the judges gave the 1st round to Forrest; i’m not sure i’ve actually heard a single person outside of judges table give that round to Forrest. Weird.

  • Perry says:

    Ace, Forest was droped and was hurt, at no point was rampage in danger, even the sub atempt was a joke, loose as, ill leave it up to you. Round two Forest did win , but name another round where he BEAT the champion

  • xx2000xx says:

    Draw this, steal that. We should all agree that Wandy vs Rampage and Chuck (if he wins) vs Forrest.

    The winners fight for the belt. I’m content with that. Lyoto will get his shot, he’s still young and probably the future belt holder for many years.

    Here’s hoping that it’s Forrest vs Wanderlei .

  • Trevor says:

    Round 1 – Rampage, Round 2 – Forrest, Round 3 – Rampage, Round 4 – Rampage, Round 5 – Could’ve gone either way.

    It was either a draw or Rampage won. I don’t need to watch it again. But, those are the breaks, guess the judges were persuaded by the crowd tonight.

  • Echolocating says:

    I scored it only slightly in favor of Griffin. But to be honest, there were no losers in that fight. It was a fantastic fight and it was arguably very close either way. I love this sport! 😉

  • Perry says:

    another hamill bisping / wwf decision by mma. Its a shame but its the truth

  • Rich S. says:

    i’d say you’re the only one..

    i was starting to worry that maybe he’d win a SPLIT DECISION once they were together with the ref after the fight.. but other than that.. i think Forrest actually won..

  • Sam Cupitt says:

    I had the following

    Round 1 – 10-9 Jackson
    Round 2 – 10-8 Griffin
    Round 3 – 10-9 Jackson
    Round 4 – 10-9 Jackson
    Round 5 – 10-9 Griffin

    47-47 Draw.

  • 47-47 as I said before……….if you give the first round to Jackson, why not the 3rd. Really wasn’t it just a replay of the first

    Rnd 1: 10-9 Jackson
    Rnd 2: 10-8 Forrest which by the way, if Joe Rogan never said anything about a 10-8 round, how many of us would have really put that down on our score card really. Cause yeah, Jackson did get rocked by the knee kick but other than that he was lying on his back, taking really no damage.
    Rnd 3: 10-9 Jackson
    Rnd 4: 10-9 Jackson
    Rnd 5: 10-9 Forrest

    As I said before, what is the deal with this “he did more” or “he out worked him.” Really if a fighter is aggressive but does absolutely nothing, compared to a fighter who lands hard shots almost every time, how is the “more aggressive” fighter winning. If you respond with “well that’s the way you judge, or score a fight,” then really that makes MMA too much of a game, when really it is a competition and in its purest form, to see who is the better fighter.

  • RUSH says:

    Not the only one Mr. Caplan… I seen it as a 47-47 fight giving 1,3,4 to Rampage. He did land a ton of power shots and I don’t remember Forrest connecting much in the 3rd round, which was really the tiebreaker in my opinion, and in that of the judges – the one that they all agreed Forrest won.

  • jorge says:

    Your all full of it if you think Forrest won that fight.

  • Charlie says:

    I had it 1-Page 2-10/8 Griff 3-Rage 4-Page 5-Griff I thought it was a draw, and if there was any variance maybe split decision forrest. I would of never expected unanimous decision.

    Here is how the judges scored it:

    Round 1
    TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson

    Round 2
    TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Griffin
    Jordan Breen scores the round 10-8 Griffin
    Mike Fridley scores the round 10-8 Griffin

    Round 3
    TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

    Round 4
    TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Jackson

    Round 5
    TJ De Santis scores the round 10-9 Jackson
    Jordan Breen scores the round 10-9 Griffin
    Mike Fridley scores the round 10-9 Griffin

  • Nonfikshun says:

    I agree all the way Sam. I give Forrest credit for what he did but Rampage did when that fight.

  • Roger says:

    I totally agree Sam, I felt that Forrest was on the defensive and scared of rampage’s power the whole fight. I think Forrest fought a smart fight but he definitely didn’t whup rampage’s ass. Draw all the way.

  • pandemicon says:

    rampage won the fight— 3-2——forrest running after every exchange—-what fight are these people watching—-its unreal—-forrest landed leg kicks and layed and prayed in the second, thats it. ah, fuck it, its no use——the sports been overrun with poser, fairweather fans, and bandwagon jumpers saying
    “whos fedor”. hang on tight bitches….you’ll fall off soon.

  • If I was to view the fight in its totality and not judge on a round by round basis, I would just have to think that leg kicks + 1 incredibly good round + endurance does not beat Jackson’s performance tonight.

  • blah says:

    like it or not, the more active fighters are always going to get more love from the judges. and forrest was more active.

  • jorge says:

    A 10-8 round? Only if Forrest had done more damage.

  • jorge says:

    The challenger has to beat the Champ without a doubt, that didn’t happen tonight.

  • king mah mah says:

    Sam, I love this sight, but it sounds like you’re reaching for a Rampage win here. I had no doubt in my mind that Forrest would get the decision at the end of the fight. Plus if you look close at the end you can see Rampage say to Forrest “you got me”. If Rampage knew he lost, where is all the disbelief coming from?!

  • RK says:

    Sam, no, you aren’t the only one that had it that way. MMAjunkie had Rampage, so did TJ De Santis, Jordan Breen had it a draw as did Dave Meltzer and Dave Doyle.

    Looking at the whole fight, Rampage did much more damage and got the most out of the exchanges. Therefore in a fight that was fought primarily on the feet, who is the victor?

    Bottom line I think is that this decision really shows how bad the 10 point must system for mma. In terms of striking, how do you quantify them all? Is a jab worth the same as a power punch? A leg kick the same as a jab?

    How about takedowns? How many points are awarded for the takedown, and how many are in turn awarded for getting back up?

  • rollshop says:

    If anything I could see scoring it a draw, but in favor of Rampage? I don’t see it. Once momentum swung Forrest’s way in the second the fight was his. Forrest was more aggressive while Rampage countered- it simply wasn’t enough. Sans leg kicks, Rampage would likely have broken Griffin in the third or fourth, but without a left leg to stand on Rampage didn’t really stand a chance. I guess Juanito has to retire now?

  • Maximus says:

    #41 its site not sight. But thats ok since your eyesite must have been obstructed tonight.

  • mo says:

    I just watched it again, and it certainly underscores the need to clarify the scoring system and objectionaly define how scores are rendered. I could see Griffin getting the decision based on ring control and by the fact he pushed the action a little more in those last 3 rounds.

    but the scoring seemed a little crazy during the night. It really caught my attn. during the Koscheck-Lytle fight. the scores were: 30-26, 29-27 and 30-28. I am a fan of Lytle’s and he showed amazing perserverance, but i don’t know that he won any of those rounds. i think the judges were not as objective as they could have been with this one, but it wasn’t a big deal because it wasn’t a spilt decision. I am not trying to suggest i would make a better judge then any of those out there, and i think the issue is more with the scoring then the judges, but it seems like this issue won’t just go away.

  • maddog says:

    sam,

    this may be the first time you are wrong. a fight is based on effective striking, grappling, aggression, and octagon control. forrest won the aggression and octagon control in all but 1 round grappling and striking could be a toss up but I give the edge to griffen(leg kicks more effective than jacksons fists).

    great card

  • naturalist says:

    Yeah, i’d have to say you and others are mistaken. Forrest was not in jeopardy of the fight ending against him like Quinten clearly was. Rampage knew it. It was clearly expressed on his face and his words.

  • king mah mah says:

    It’s funny when a fight doesn’t go the way a “hardcore fan” wants it to and they scream bloody murder! But they insist on defending a fight like Machida’s win over Tito. Give me a goddamn break! Forrest took the belt fare and square. Deal with it…….you “hardcore fan” you!

  • eazye says:

    47-47 draw is the same way I had it

  • Neil says:

    I think that Sam just about hit the nail on the head… I saw all rounds going to Jackson, except for the second which was a lopsided 10-8 for Griffin. I could see how the last round could be counted for Griffin, but even then we’ve got a draw. I won’t say that Griffin doesn’t deserve the belt, but Jackson get (at least in part) short-changed.

  • Bobby Buckwheat says:

    The first time watching the fight through, I called it 48-46 Rampage. Rampage winning rounds 1,3,4,5, and losing round 2 10-8. After a second watch w/o audio I scored it 47/47 with Forrest winning round 2 10-8 nd round 5 10-9. As a COMPLETELY BIAS Rampage fan I think my bias might have me scoring for Rampage and not thinking clearly. I’ll wait till the adrenaline of all of us to cool down and decide my own outcome, but it doesn’t matter, Forrest is the new UFC LW Champ. Wow………Congrats Forrest you’re a f-cking man among men.

  • Maximus says:

    Nobody is screaming bloody murder. But the way the judges scored the fights tonight I thought i was watching an Elite-XC Event in New Jersey.

  • I had it…

    Round 1 10-9 Jackson
    Round 2 10-9 Griffin
    Round 3 10-9 Jackson
    Round 4 10-9 Jackson
    Round 5 10-9 Griffin

    48-47 Jackson

    I thought the more damaging shots should count more and give Rampage the edge in the later rounds. I need to watch it again tomorrow, but I don’t think Forrest did enough in the second to warrant a 10-8. Like #33 said, he hurt him bad with those leg kicks, but didn’t inflict 10-8 type damage for the rest of the round.

  • I had it 48-47 for Jackson, 3 rounds to 2, but the middle rounds were a lot closer than people thought. I have more problems with the scoring of the fight than who won..

  • king mah mah says:

    Sounds like a bunch of people have a crush on Rampage! He lost…..BIG TIME. He is not a true champion, Forrest will hold the belt longer than Rampage!

  • Maximus says:

    what is a true champion? King Rah Rah

  • Jerry Johnson says:

    Just like the Boston Celtics and Borack Obama we as a “society” are looking for a good story to talk about as our country begins to crumble. As Americans we are slowly becoming underdogs and are looking to pull for that certain someone like Forrest. Weak win, I wouldnt have an after party if I was Forrest, better yet I would be out to dinner with the judges and Dana “its good to be” White. Dana wouldnt want it any other way, just like David Stern, at the end of the day its about the bottom dollar. Luckily for the UFC Rampage went out as a goodsport and didnt cry travesty like he should have.

  • king mah mah says:

    @46, you’re high on something!

  • Maximus says:

    Forrest maybe the new champ but did anyone notice his punches were slower and more telegraphed than usual?

  • Maximus says:

    2 of the 3 judges(Byrd and Silbert) gave the first round to Forrest. Thats ABSURD.

  • Lawdawg says:

    The UFC has become a joke. No way Forrest won this fight. This follows a long line of ridiculous LHW decisions. Jardine v. Liddell was a split decision (joke #1 – no way Liddell should have won that fight on even one card); Liddell v. Silva (joke #2 – two judges had it 30-27 Liddell even though Silva knocked him down in the 2nd); and tonight (joke #3 – one judge had Forrest winning 4 of the 5 rounds and the two others had him winning 3 of 5). Let’s hope Affliction can right the ship before MMA slips off the ledge into WWF territory with these terrible scorecards.

  • revjames13 says:

    Rampage won the first round dominantly. Forrest won the 2nd dominantly. Neither round was a 10-8. And certainly not the second. I though Forrest stole the third off the momentum of the previous round. Rampage took the 4th with that slam. The last round was even, but Rampage had the harder strikes. If you’re going to be the champ you gotta beat the champ.

    However there is a special clause. If the Champ guarantees that the fight is not going to a decision and it does go to a decision, and if you are, in fact, the most beloved fighter in MMA, then you proceed directly to a UN victory.

    How was this not at least a split decision? But all credit to Forrest for fighting the smartest and best fight of his life. He took Rampage’s best shot in the 1st and came back. That leg kick won the fight for him. Remember seeing some report where he kicked the leg of a journalist lightly as a joke and the guy almost couldn’t walk.

    Guess Forrest kicks hard, eh? Maybe his kicks can bust a grape. I won’t say Rampage was robbed, but he was not given kind champ-like scoring. Nowadays, the tie goes to the underdog, guess. Cool.

    Forrest has to be taken seriously now. By anyone. Including Liddell, who we could not even conceive of him being a threat to two years ago.

  • Jimmy says:

    Forest won that fight without a shadow of a doubt.

    I had him winning four rounds actually.

  • fastfoodandbeer says:

    Forrest won. 100% I know it’s hard to believe, it’s hard to swallow….but Forrest did what he needed to to do….no way to refute that.

  • king mah mah says:

    Dude, seriously…. a split decision? Forrest won that fight hands down. No question about it. What the hell are you people talking about?!

  • Maximus says:

    Who seriously thinks Forrest won the 1st round?

  • GhostMilk says:

    It was close but Forrest didn’t do enough to take the belt away from the champ. I had it 48 to 47 in favor of Jackson as well.

  • el dood says:

    Well, reading thru the comments, it aint hard to tell who people were rooting for. Most of the comments are reasonable, but the bias shines thru pretty bright in a close fight like this.

  • Are you having a laugh?. says:

    I’m not an MMA judge just a guy with an opinion just like everyone else and I thought that Forrest won but it was close enough for me to be sweating on the decision. Having said that, it was closer in my mind than the judges had it, even with the leg kicks I think the most damage was done by Rampage but obviously thats not what wins the fight in the judges minds, there are other things to be considered. I thought the Besping vs Hamill fight was a close one that could have gone either way and then I saw the outrage on the internet at the decision, so go figure.

  • WTF says:

    I hate Rampage and I thought Rampage won rounds 1, 3, and 4. Forrest dominated round 2 and narrowly won round 5. Round shouldn’t have been a 10-8 round imo because even though Rampage didn’t really do anything, he defended himself the whole time and the closest Forrest got to finishing the fight was a failed Keylock attempt. Just my opinion but At least I don’t have Mazzagatti or Cecil Peoples to complain about. I say either immediate rematch in October or November. If not, Wanderlei vs Rampage and Liddell, Evans, or Machida vs Forrest.

  • king blah blah says:

    You people that are sayin that Forrest won clearly are out of your minds. When I see a fighter say “please, please” before they announce the winner tells me that even he had no idea if he had won or not. So quit tryin to act like you know it all.

    Anyways I had it as a draw, Jackson didnt capitalize when he hurt Forrest in the 1st and all Forrest did was the big leg kick in the 2nd and then keep trying to kick Page’s knee. Nothign else he threw seemed to land or have any power in it whatsoever. IMO, Forrest didnt do enough to take his belt and certainly didnt win 4 rounds.

    Nevertheless it was a fucking awesome fight and made up for a very mediocre card.

    Made it worth the 50, imo

  • Joey says:

    Though I wholly disagree with your scoring . . . I think the only round you are totally off base with is the 5th. There is no way Jackson won that round.

  • sven says:

    I had it scored a draw exactly like Jester did up top. Still as a Forrest fan I’ll take it.

  • Chris says:

    Sam,

    I scored the fight the same as you. 49-46 Jackson. But when a fight is that close I don’t think you can complain either way.

    I credit both guys for fighting their butts off.

  • king mah mah says:

    @58, If you scored it 49-46…. how can you say it it was close? Forrest won the damn fight, I can’t believe all these haters!

  • revjames13 says:

    The fight was even going in to the last round. Forrest damn near got KO’d in the first. How any judge gives that to Forrest is beyond belief. Obviously Forrest takes the second. Then the last three obviously were close enough to warrant major speculation. Forrest fought smart and kept it close enough so that you can’t really argue with him getting the nod. Make no mistake, I like him and I’m happy he won. He’s got guts galore.

    But Rampage had him hurt several times and did more damage. It could have easily easily easily gone the other way. I was surprised Rampage didn’t benefit more from the Champ gets the nod in close fights thing. Guess that doesn’t apply when you fight Forrest Griffin.

    How unlikely did this seem after the Jardine Fight? Kieth must be happy with this result. As well as Chuck.

  • king mah mah says:

    The only way you had it even going into the 5th is if your name is mike goldberg!

  • king mah mah says:

    Even Rogan said Forrest was winning the fight with 1:30 left in the fourth, and Forrest won the rest of the fight after that.

  • Are you having a laugh?. says:

    King mah mah others have opinions too. It was obviously closer than YOU think cuz we are not all idiots, so give it a rest. We are not all haters just people who think it was a close fight, is that so hard to swallow.

  • Jad says:

    I agree with you Sam…
    I thought Rampage won… and I am a big fan of Forrest as well. I also think Rogan is not an objective commentator… once he picks someone… he always makes it out like they’re winning more than they are… Anyway best to rewatch fights without commentary.

    I scored it
    Round 1 Rampage 10-9
    Round 2 Forrest 10-8
    Round 3 Forrest 10-9
    Round 4 Rampage 10-9
    Round 5 Rampage 10-9

    47-47… but Rampage as champ retains…. should have been the result…
    Then again, when one thinks about it… THe UFC have wanted Forrest to be champion… hence they put the division on hold with both fighters as coaches… In that time, Forrest still needed to win another fight I think…

    Forrest is a good champ but I think he needed to have fought a few more people before getting a shot… at least a rematch with Jardine should have happened.

    He’s champ now… so we’ll see what happens..

  • Rich says:

    I scored it for Rampage. A lot of people on here giving the fight to Forrest may well have been swayed by Joe Rogan’s commentary, and on that point I completely agree with Jad (#99).

    For a long time I’ve noticed that Rogan is hardly ever objective and you can tell who he favours in a fight. He emphasises on fighter’s manoeuvres and downplays the other’s. It’s not a popular point but it is true. Commentary is very powerful in these situations and a lot of people give Joe Rogan’s remarks a lot of weight. Granted he knows his stuff but he does make mistakes and is by no means an authority on MMA.

  • stevefiji says:

    I just re-watched the fight. First time I had it Rds. 2 (10-8),3 and 5 to Griffin and Rds. 1 and 4 to Rampage. The second time, I had it the same, but the 5th was so much closer than I thought.

    Now here’s the deal for all these ‘Rampage was Robbed!” naysayers… Rampage, with the exception of Round 1 was backing up almost all of the fight and protecting his leg, especially after Rd 2 where he was severely pummeled. In Rds. 3 – 5, he was near a ‘Liddell clone’ in the Jardine fight, primarily backing away and counter punching… with only a rare forward aggression, which while possibly effective, is not a helluva lot better and prettier than Kaleb ‘ The Marathon Man’ Starnes. This was NOT the fight plan of a self proclaimed whup-ass champion. It was the strategy of a dude who was seriously hurt from some nasty-ass ‘Bas Rutten’ style leg kicks.

    Did Griffin cleanly win Rd 3 or 5? Maybe, but did Rampage win those rounds? Maybe… Was it a close exciting fight that was left in the hands of judges who saw fit to give it to the guy who pressed the action for rounds 2 – 5? Yes, absolutely.

    Jackson was so adamant that there would be no decision. He failed. Griffin fought a smart, tactical fight and lets look one week in the future, when I CHALLENGE ANYBODY TO SAY GRIFFIN’S FACE IS MORE MESSED UP THAN JACKSON’S LEG WILL BE!!!

    So if those people who foolishly say that Rampage’s punches were more effective striking… let’s watch how Rampage is walking in a week. Then, let them say it again, so I can laugh out loud. Jackson’s leg will be swelled up, maybe with serious damage and certainly much uglier than Griffin’s face. I would not be surprised if Griffin might be 2 for 2 for opponents requiring knee surgery following one of his fights.

    Rampage was an awesome Champ and a gracious loser. He will be around for a longtime and probably hold the belt again. Griffin earned that victory and it was neither cheap nor stolen. He beat the champ… he out hit him in numbers, he out hurt him (knee vs. face), he out conditioned him, he out pounded him on the ground and he had the better submission attempts. Who’s truly foolish enough to cry foul on that?

    This was close, this was a great fight, and this was why I love MMA. Let’s give Forrest his due. The world has a real life Rocky and we should all be happy and have a greater faith that when doctors tell us, “we can’t”, that when the critics tell us, “we can’t”, that when the world tells us, “we can’t”…well, if we believe and ourselves and are willing to make the sacrifice, we just might prove ’em all wrong.

    I long ago held to the old adage that ‘people who are successful are willing to do the things that other people are not’. That defines Forrest Griffin, he’s willing to work harder and take more pain and keep working on his weaknesses. Tonight I have more belief in myself than i did when i woke up. Thanks Forrest. Cheers Mates!

  • Jez says:

    I had it as a draw.

  • Bruce says:

    I scored it the same as #13–A draw

  • woooburn says:

    damn, 103 comments on a 5oz post and it doesnt even involve an athletic commission or the diaz brothers? blowin’ up! wasnt able to watch the fights last night, but i’m looking forward to this one. sounds like a classic.

  • dedstrk says:

    We had a huge argument between all of us here. One side thought Rampage won, and one side that Griffin won, but nobody thought it was a unanimous decision. I actually thought it could have been scored as a draw but I believe if it wasn’t a draw that Rampage won.

    1st = 10-9 Rampage
    2nd = 10-8 Forrest
    3rd = 10-9 Rampage
    4th = 10-9 Rampage
    5th = 10-9 Forrest

  • Brandt says:

    Round 2 was 10-8 and the rest could have gone either way. That’s what gave Griffin the advantage and he probably did more damage overall. Its all subjective and not one of you were ringside except Meltzer. I don’t care about the Sherdog people either…maybe Breen’s opinion holds water, but the rest of ’em just make boring 2 hour podcasts all week.

  • ufcfan says:

    i was surprised by the judges’ scoring, i can’t believe it wasn’t a split decision.

    rampage needed to come back guns blazing in the 5th round but didn’t…
    the 5th round was kind of anti-climatic really.

    second round was definitely 10-8 griffin…

  • david says:

    Forrest > Rampage.

    End of story.

  • king blah blah says:

    More like

    Forrest = Rampage

  • Joe says:

    I 100% thought Rampage won. He clearly won the 1st and the 4th and I thought he won the third. As far as a 10-8 secong round, sure Forrest was in control that round but what damage did he do besides the two leg kicks that led to the takedown? Could you have done less from mount than Forrest did?

  • Dan UK says:

    Definately agree with you on the power shots, Rampage landed all the big hits.

    It was a close fight but I definately had it on points to Rampage.

    He should get his rematch soon, if not for Forrest’s first defence.

  • JG says:

    Forrest not only wins a close decision but should receive Rampage’s entire purse for smarting off during the TUF show.

  • Ryder Die says:

    I thought for sure that Rampage had won. To me it didnt seem like Forrest did anything except for those leg kicks in round 2. I am so puzzled by how judges score rounds. Its true when they say you cant let it go to the judges – you never know what will happen. Cause – They didnt just have Page losing they had him losing bad.

    and one other thing – did anybody care that Joe Stevenson had his son in attendence for the 1st time. i thought that was ridiculous to even mention. he should worry a little more about his fighting than who is there for him. cause he barely escaped with a win.

  • Jeff says:

    i scored it a draw.

    r1: 10-9 jackson
    r2: 10-8 griffin
    r3: 10-9 griffin
    r4: 10-9 jackson
    r5: 10-9 jackson

  • Da Twin says:

    Juanito needs to retire and Rampage needs to give Forrest his whole purse, thats what happens when people say stupid shit like that YOU LOSE! Forrest won 2,4,5 10-8 10-9 10-9 & the 3rd was tied

  • Zack with a ck says:

    Rampage HANDILY won that fight. The single most catastrophic decision in MMA. Worse the Rizzo vs Big Nog.

    An absolute travesty for our sport. A total joke.

  • patrick says:

    all you people who think Rampage won are wild. You are all Rampage fans or lost some kind of money on the fight or both. the reason round 2 was a 10-8 is because Forrest was on top for 4 minutes pounding Rampage. Somebody said page defended well while on the ground that round! HOW!? By blocking forrest’s fist with his face for 4 minutes?GREAT defense. Now I would say scoring round 3 would be the hardest for any fan or judge. But the way i felt that when page got his own takedown he didnt do a whole lot while on top.while forrest got that triangle choke attempt off scoring points from the bottom helped. and the damage done to Page’s leg was the deciding factor. It was a sound judgement. No travesty here.

  • jaydog says:

    Scoring aside, the intangible criteria of heroicism should also factor in. Both of these guys bring a reputation for their consistent valiant efforts and ability to pull out a victory. In this respect, Rampage came out ahead. Considering the distance that Jackson traveled from near defeat in the 2nd, I think the real champion was evident by the end. After the 2nd, Forrests’s approach amounted to treading water and didn’t seem to be trying to close the deal for the rest of the fight. That’s my take. The victory was not conclusive, at all. An immediate rematch is more than warranted.

  • ufcpro says:

    It all depends on who you were rooting for. I had it for Jackson because i wanted him to win.

  • revjames13 says:

    good post #101

    This fight has me thinking that in MMA, the tie goes to the underdog, not the Champ. This isn’t boxing, and somehow maybe it’s good to give the underdog his due. In a fight, if somebody is absolutely supposed to kick somebody’s ass, if he’s meant to destroy him, and then the guy puts up a hell of a fight, well it’s like a victory because he kept it close.

    Forrest benefitted from that. He kept the fight close when Rampage was supposed to “whoop his ass.” And he almost did in that first round. That shot that dropped Forrest was the end that most (including Rampage) expected. A quick mount and some blows reigned down and the ref stops it. But he couldn’t put Griffin away. You could see look of disappointment on his face at the end of the round. It was subtle, but you could a “damn, he’s still in the fight” flash across his eyes.

    Neither round one or two was a 10-8. A 10-8 is when you beat the hell out of someone and just miss putting them away. Forrest was on top, but didn’t do much from that position. But he did hold him down the whole round after that great leg kick. What a round like that does (while not a 10-8) is create momentum. If the next round is close, like it was, it should go to the guy who is coming off a dominant round.

    The real way the fight went was Rampage 1, Forrest 2 and 3, Rampage 4, and then the last round was actually even, too close to score. I don’t believe it the 10 point must system. If neither guy does enough to establish who won the round it should be a 9-9. That would make this fight a draw, which, let’s face it, is basically the truth of what happened. I watched the show without commentary by the way, and was rooting for Forrest to win.

    I was of the mind that in draw situations the Champ gets the nod. But this is were the underdog thing comes in. Rampage was supposed to destroy him. He said the fight wouldn’t go to decision. It did and he lost because it was thrilling to watch Forrest make a fight of it. If we had no idea who either guy was and watched the fight, might it have been scored differently? Perhaps, but it really doesn’t matter.

    This wasn’t Hamill/Bisping. History will show that Forrest won and I don’t think it will say it was a controversial decision. But it was much much much closer than the official scorecards.

  • J-dawg says:

    Sam – I agree with you on this one. Obviously, Forrest was more aggressive in this fight. As for octagon control, if you consider attacking your opponent with your head down while getting your face smashed controlling the octagon then you’ll pick Forrest; if not, then Rampage is likely to be your winner. Forrest threw more punches but Rampage landed more punches. I scored it 48-46 Rampage.

  • jaydog says:

    It wouldn’t have gone to a decision, if Rampage didn’t have an injured leg for the last three rounds. It also wouldn’t have gone to a decision if Forrest could take advantage of the GNP opportunity for the last 4 minutes of Rd 2. Take those two shortcomings out on both fighter’s part and you have Rampage pounding on Forrest’s face while being peppered with jabs and low kicks. But yeah, I’d say tie goes to the champ.

    “To be the man, you have to beat the man,” Rick Flair.

  • Maximus says:

    #117 all forrest did from the top was rub his elbows into pages face. If it was such a pounding then why wasn’t his face more damaged at the end of the fight.

  • joetheacupuncturist says:

    maybe its my love of baseball and the tie goes to the runner thing or maybe it goes back to my pro wrestling fanboy days but i just think the champion gets the round if it is the least bit questionable.

  • ROBERT says:

    Rampage said on the show that he will bet his whole purse that it wont go to a decision and Ibarra said he will retire if Rampage loses. i bet both of them wont keep there word.

  • GoofyMonkey says:

    Not that anyone is going to read post #126 at this point but… I thought he pulled it out too… I gave him 1, 3 & 4. Oh well. I hope for an immediate rematch.

  • pitbull17 says:

    I thought it was much closer than the scorecards read, I thought a draw or a split decision in favor of Rampage was coming. I didn’t see it as that one sided, but now that I have watched the fight again i can see where a couple of rounds namely the third and fourth were a toss up and it just depends on the person scoring, I’m of the opinion to beat the champ you have to BEAT! the champ but alot of people don’t see it that way. at least on this site people aren’t going crazy and saying the fix was in like the are on some other sites.

  • maddog says:

    #121 j-dawgif forrest lead with his head why didn’t rampage tkfo him?  don’t be butt hurt that your man didn’t win. do leg kicks count? forrest won the 2nd round because he kicked. had rampage won we would be hearing the same crying in the other direction. rematch will not happen till jackson beats someone else. luv ya man

  • revjames13 says:

    Rampage should have to win another, but only one other, fight before he gets a rematch. Any of the following will do: Wandy, Rua, Machida. If Chuck gets past Rashad he will likely get the next shot at Griffin. If Rashad somehow wins, then that is another guy Rampage could fight to get his rematch.

    The fight with Griffin was basically a draw. They each had dominant rounds, and the last three were too close to be definitive (though I gave Forrest 3 and Page 4). Nothing really happened in the last round. Page’s corner should have told him how close it was and had him go for it to close it out. He played it too careful.

    The scorecards were a joke, though. Anyone who doesn’t give Rampage the first round should just give up ever trying to judge a fight. It doesn’t matter if the other guy is peppering in “tink” punches and racking up some minor points, when the other guy drops him to the mat with a strike and nearly finishes him off with GnP while the dude is clinging for his life to stay alive, HE WINS THAT ROUND, case closed. I wouldn’t make it a 10-8 for Page, but in no reality, real or imagined, does he lose that round. Same goes for round two, Forrest takes that with a 10-9. Never is that a 10-8. It was a great leg kick and he held Page down for the round, but Page neutralized him on the ground. Forrest never got anything off.

    The last three round were pick ’ems. Neither guy did enough to make it clear (though the triangle into power slam was the highlight of the fight.) Not complaining Forrest won, it was an inspired performance. But I feel bad for Rampage that the scorecards were so off. I was certain at least one judge would give it to him. I though he was going to take it myself.

  • revjames13 says:

    Just saw the fight a second time, and I must say Forrest does a bit better on second viewing. I still thought the fight was even going into the last round. The third was the toughest round to call.

    1. definitive Page. 2. definitive Griffin 3. Almost impossible to call, but I give to Griffin on momentum. 4. Page 5. This time instead of seeing it as even, I give a slight edge to Griffin for staying busier. And in a fight like this, the winner of the last round deserves it.

    It’s fair that Forrest won. It just should have been 48 to 47.

  • JacRabbit says:

    I personally thought rampage had it won, with a high possibility of a draw. A unanimous decision was way out of wack. I have it on the DVR…i’ll need to watch this again.

  • THORAZINE says:

    Sam, I like both fighters and don’t have any bias towards either one. Since so many fans have said Forrest won, I really am questioning what I witnessed, but I saw it the same way u did.

    R1: 10-9 Rampage
    R2: 10-8 Forrest
    R3: 10-9 Rampage
    R4: 10-9 Rampage
    R5: 10-9 Rampage

  • weoweoweo says:

    a win for rampage is just reaching. its a draw at best. round 3 could go to either fighter. so its not a robbery or a conspiracy as some of the people are claiming.

    and sam, i agree with # 8 MrNiceGuyMMA

  • ufcfan says:

    Come the f on Rampage totally won that fight. Griffin had one or two stupid kicks compared to rampages numerous hard punches. it was fixed, theres no way in hell forrest won that fight. Come on, 2 second round 10-8 hahahahaha more like the first round should of been when forrest hit the floor. Anyway, in the end forrest was clearly in pain and damaged and rampage didnt have a scratch on him. so who really did when that fight?

  • ufcfan says:

    Come the f on Rampage totally won that fight. Griffin had one or two stupid kicks compared to rampages numerous hard punches. it was fixed, theres no way in hell forrest won that fight. Come on, second round 10-8 hahahahaha more like the first round should of been when forrest hit the floor. Anyway, in the end forrest was clearly in pain and damaged and rampage didnt have a scratch on him. so who really did win that fight?

  • king mah mah says:

    I showed the fight to some of my buddies at work who don’t even watch mma. And without even telling them who I thought won they immediately said that Forrest won by a good margin.

    @”Are you having a laugh”, yes I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just felt strongly about mine. It was a close fight after rewatching it, but I still think Forrest won and he deserves that belt.

  • Mariah says:

    I think that it was very close however Forest maintained “Octagon control” for 70 percent of the fight. Hew delivered several unchecked kicks to the inner thighs and outter thighs. Plus the 2nd round was without a doubt went to Griffin. I watched the fight and am well aware of the scoring and when it was over I knew Griffin was going to win. And this crap of the champ stay the champ if it goes to decision is wrong if that is your base. Look at Tim Silvia vs. Randy Couture. It is possible. Rampage may have had the agressiveness scored but in the the words of every MMA fighter “if you leave it to the judges you are going to get fucked.” If you can’t finish it then you certainly can’t win it. Because who knows I am girl after all.

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