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Pros and Cons: UFC 85

icfc.jpgPRO: Let me just say I really enjoyed this show from top to bottom and credit the UFC for putting it on. There are several cons to come but they’re mainly little annoyances and nothing bad about the product itself. Small things always stick out to me that annoy me so there will always be more cons than pros, even for the greatest show ever.

PRO: Cecil Peoples scored a fight correctly. But how funny is it that the first time this happens in the history of the world that the wrong guy won? It’s poetry in motion. With two points taken away from Marquardt and Leites winning the first round the correct score was indeed 28-27 for Thales Leites. This was the first time Cecil Peoples has been right about anything since giving someone an accurate fatality code for Raydan in Mortal Kombat (toward 2, away 3, A) at an arcade in 1993. Yet even then Marquardt clearly dominated the fight and was the better fighter. There is just something beautiful about that. The first time you’re right in 15 years and you’re still wrong.

CON: Marcus Davis: YOU’RE NOT IRISH. This needs to be said. Look we have this understanding in the United States that it’s assumed we’re all American so we frequently talk about our ancestry as we’re a melting pot from around the globe. Namely it’s the Irish and Italians but people have Native American history, Jewish history, Polish history and any number of places their grandparents came from. But when you travel internationally you’re an American. To fight in the UK and be UBER-IRISH with the kilt and clovers and shorts and overkill like having a drunk leprechaun as your #2 (okay, I made that one up) is just too much. He even said in this interview with BK, “I see a lot of kids who are from European decent ignore that and grab a hold of this MTV generation and hip hop culture and run with it. I am Irish, Scottish and Welsh and proud of it.” What? We all know MTV sucks and while many of us have considered hating our country over it that’s a bit of a lame reason. Over at 411, “My mom raised me as my dad was not a part of my life growing up. He was an in and out kind of father you know. I mean I haven’t spoken to him in over seven years. My mom’s side of the family is Irish so I feel closer to them. I wear my kilts as my way of saying this is who I am.” So because your mom’s family is kinda Irish you’re totally Irish? Do I even need to mention that your nickname, The Irish Hand Grenade, was so offensive the UFC had to change it for your UFC 72 fight in Ireland itself? Did this not tell you anything? Isn’t that like Akihiro Gono being born and raised in Canada and nicknaming himself “The Japanese Enola Gay?” What exactly is wrong with you?

CON: The crowd booing at some point during nearly every fight. Isn’t this England? The country that loves soccer? So let me get this straight, you can watch two hours of guys lazily kicking a ball to each other on grass with a final score of 0-0 but a ten minute fist fight upsets you and bores you to tears? Then you’re doing the wave and chanting 10 seconds later? I don’t know what the hell you people are on but I want some.


PRO: Jason Lambert. Despite what I’m about to say I love Jason Lambert; I believe I listed Lambert when I once listed my ten favorite fighters. Just something about that belly is unsettling. I remember the main critique I heard from the media after the highly publicized Liddell/Rampage II UFC event was that Liddell didn’t look in shape or like a dedicated athlete. Enter Lambert. Who could probably cut to 145lbs if he wanted and has the reach of Vern Troyer. Seriously, Jason, I love you. I was rooting for you (even against Adam Morgan’s man crush Cane) but you gotta do something about the belly. Cut to 115lbs, move to Bangladesh and maybe Jordan Breen will rate you in a top 10.

CON: “Defend at all times.” I really hate this saying and it never bothered me more than seeing a couple of people type it after Marquardt hit Leites with the illegal knee. I’ve also seen it said on multiple occasions when a fighter went to touch gloves and his opponent just took an easy swing at him (hi Manny Gamburyan and the guy from that boxing clip). I understand the sentiment but how are you supposed to protect yourself from something you can’t see coming or an illegal shot? It’s the same reason you never see a sucker punch coming, that’s why they call it a sucker punch. You can only defend yourself from things that are probable. Will someone on the Sherdog forums complain when a nut with a gun hops in the cage and shoots Ryo Chonan because fighters should always protect themselves while in the cage? Fighters aren’t preventing shots to the back of the head because it’s illegal and they have more pressing concerns at the moment.

CON: Joe Rogan, I enjoy your thoughts on fights. But please stop with the superior striker/grappler thing during the match. None of that crap is valid unless you apply it to MMA. I remember him saying Leites was above and beyond Marquardt on the ground. REALLY? Nate Marquardt has been submitted only twice in almost 40 fights by two of the best MMA submission guys you can find, Ricardo Almeida and Genki Sudo. Leites is a fine fighter and excellent athlete but to say he’s leagues better than Marquardt on the ground is an insult not just to Marquardt but to the things Marquardt has done to adjust the style to MMA. Yes, in a pure BJJ tournament I’m taking Leites but this is MMA and Marquardt was going to pound the crap out of him and avoid submissions easily. Marquardt is a powerful tank and he’s not going to be tricked by a gi-induced choke. This isn’t Abu Dhabi. Like when they say Alessio Sakara was a pro boxer. Have you ever looked at Alessio Sakara’s boxing record? According to boxrec the guy was 6-1 and the combined win total of all 6 guys he beat? ZERO. A combined 0-19 record of the six guys he beat when he beat them. This is probably why you pick against him whenever he fights anyone that knows how to punch. Sure, he was a pro boxer…. and he also gets knocked out by anyone with power. You have to look beyond the general background and adapt it to the actual sport they’re competing in.

PRO: Fightfinder MMA Experts. This was a big day for us, the crazy people that actually watch all of the fights. Mark my words, a couple of years from now someone (again, probably on the Sherdog forums) will make a statement in favor of Thales Leites winning a fight and will reference how he beat Nate Marquardt. We will know that person is an idiot. This is one of those fantastically obvious fights we will remember and down the road someone will simply look at fightfinder to back up their argument and pick a fight result without actually knowing that fight. We’ve all ran into it before but a fight like this only picks up our spirits. You can’t know a fight unless you saw it. How many fights end in a random punch or bad decision? People that watch the fights remember these things, people that just use fightfinder for results and arguments do not. Down the road this fight will be used by someone that didn’t see the card to argue for something and we’ll all be there to laugh. Rejoice. Rejoice.

PRO: Me remembering I’m a man. Earlier this week I closed my garage door, which takes about eight seconds, and a mouse ran in. For the first four seconds I reacted like a girl and made a high pitched “EEEEEEEE” sound and might or might not have had my hands at my head shaking. Then in the second four seconds I remembered that I possess a penis and testicles, grabbed a broom and swatted it out with a baseball bat style swing. Way to go me.

48 COMMENTS
  • Joe says:

    Great piece Mike, but what the hell is that refrence to football? (which you call “soccer”, which is a name made up in the States!)
    Saying socer players are lazy is such an ignorant comment… if you don’t like it, fine. If you don’t understand it, it’s your problem, but don’t show the same ignorance other readers show here when they attack Miragliotta or anyt other comment of that kind. Whether you like it or not, it is the most popular sport all around the worl, and there’s gotta be a reason for that… don’t be a hater only because you don’t understand it… besides, what about baseball? America’s national sport has got to be the laziest sport ever… and what about “american football”, which is such a bad copy of rugby… they have three different teams (offense, defense and special teams), and the plays are stopped every 10 seconds!!! In rugby, at least the whole team carries the ball, and they all tackle…
    I love american football, but I believe your comment was very unfortunate… I hope you realize how ignorant that comment made you look…
    Cheers,

  • Mark Aulet says:

    Sam or Huckaby … email me at the address provided in my submission I’ve got some information I want you guys to check on would make a nice piece.
    I was also the one speaking to you during the 85 Live airing. Speak to you guys soon.

  • Zach says:

    you missed one major con, title contender not making weight, cmon, you cant make the weight dont make the fight. Then ufc is in a tight spot cause Alves fought really well, so they cant cut him or punish him, but its a discrace when an up and coming star cant make wieght and has a chronic habbit of it (see Gina Carano). Alves comes from a top camp and i think everyone expected better, this type of thing is unprofessional.

  • Al says:

    Haha, now that is priceless. A sport that yearns for a little respect from those that do not understand it, that asks that you merely to learn a little about about the nuances of the game before you disparage it, that makes it’s fans want to cry when they hear the ignorant remarks of oblivious, narrow minded media types – and yet, one of the prominent writers on one of the better dedicated sites to the sport goes and makes a silly remark like that about football.

    Like MMA, there are a lot of sticks you can use with which to beat up on football – and yet you choose the path of least effort and intelligence. Well done, sir.

  • iamphoenix says:

    soccer sucks.

    ..imo.

  • Two Toes says:

    This “article” is filled with tons of fail. Good job. Maybe you should leave comedy writing to people that are actually funny?

  • That’s what they tell me.

    And #1, I wasn’t ripping the sport. It was more a joke than an opinion piece on soccer. I don’t hate the sport. I’m not one of those Jim Rome types.

  • Trendel says:

    Mike, what the brits are on is mostly pre-natal alcohol and you are too late for that.

  • Steve says:

    He didn’t say soccer players were lazy, he said that they occasionally kick the ball lazily. He was just pointing out that soccer is a relatively slow paced sport (like baseball and hockey), and British fans enjoy it, yet they boo the moment somebody isn’t getting punched in the face in an MMA match.

    Comprehension is key.

  • Reaser says:

    the UK invented the term soccer…

    for the people that dont’ know what the hell they are talking about….

    well done Huck…

  • Zack with a ck says:

    Good lord, somebody takes a winking poke at “futbol” and the slavering humorless euros come out of the woodwork.

    Don’t let the bastards grind you down Huck. I enjoyed it.

  • Mike Wolfe says:

    Somebody has to explain Lamberts’ pectoral muscles to me, never mind the abdomen. I’ve been in gyms most of my life, and I’ve never seen musculature like that. I hasten to add that I’m make no accusations and cast no aspersions, but they look bizarre.

    With regard to the mouse, feed the little f***ker to the hornets. They’re carnivores, you know.

  • Robby says:

    “Marquardt is a powerful tank and he’s not going to be tricked by a gi-induced choke. This isn’t Abu Dhabi.”

    Err, isn’t ADCC no-gi?

  • Charles says:

    Is it me or has anyone else noticed that Alves tested positive for a diuretic, Spironolactone, which he used to lose water weight, in order to reach the 170-pound .If he has to use this crap to cut weight and can’t reach 170 without it .Then the win over Hughes is crap if he can not get to 170 lbs.

  • RealDrew says:

    I agree with Mike about the fans booing. That pisses me off. I still don’t think those Brits were as bad as the folks in Sacramento. UFC 73 and the recent WEC event were both in Sacramento and the fans started booing immediately. As soon as the fight hits the ground the fans will start booing.

    Now for those that feel the need to defend soccer, don’t bother. A large majority of Americans hate soccer. Don’t take it personally, Americans hate hockey too. I don’t understand why, but there is no point in trying to persuade them otherwise. I love hockey, and IMO, hockey and soccer are ten times more exicting then baseball and basketball.

  • holorian says:

    Overall I rally enjoyed the piece but one aspect really irked me. Who are you to tell someone they are not Irish? Or of any decent? I understand your argument, that were he’s American. Marcus Davis himself has said, in the end I am an American. But if he wants to celebrate his heritage you have no right to tell him he’s not Irish enough. The insult to injury is that you quote Davis about his upbringing, how his father was never around. That his mothers side is Irish, and that he does it show respect to the person/family that helped him become a man. Yet you use that quote to insult him and his family. To make a parity of the respect he shows his lineage? I believe you should choose your topics more wisely sir. The under tone of your writing was truly insulting. Here’s to better judgment….

  • Chang says:

    “Marcus Davis: YOU’RE NOT IRISH.”

    -This goes double for Roger Huerta – YOU’RE NOT MEXICAN (or Irish for that matter.) We all know these are simlpy marketing ploys to pull in a more varied fan base. But even still, co-opting a nationality in an atttempt at making a gullible population segment believe that they have a “dog in the fight” is just unseemly.

  • Kuch says:

    “The Japanese Enola Gay?”

    My sides still hurt. Good one.

  • Zack with a ck says:

    RealDrew. I hate all those sports you mention. MMA, football, sportfucking. That’s it for me.

  • kcimkram says:

    Well , I was at UFC 85 and I can’t remember too many boos.I’m pretty certain I hear more boos at the US UFC events.
    The crowd got bored during Swick V Davis and started a mexican wave.A bit disrespectful but slightly funny.
    I can’t believe you knocked football (not soccer!) when every mainstream US sport can be boring as hell.I love NFL but come on , that can be pretty boring sometimes.
    You only made that comment as you’re p*ssed you can’t have a soccer(grrrr) tournament in the US involving only US teams and then the winners call themselves ‘World Champions’.
    Anyway , I thought UFC 85 was pretty good considering the lack of big names.The Bisping fight really got the crowd going.
    Wiman V Tavares was fight of the night though.

  • Michael Huckaby you are a jackass.

    In one writeup you’ve talked shit on Marcus Davis, Soccer Joe Rogan and English fans.
    But somehow given respect to Jason Lambert?

  • Mike Wolfe says:

    After I read these posts, I took a few minutes to ponder whether soccer is more exciting than baseball, and whether either of them is more exciting than hockey. I then wondered whether my willingness to seriously consider this could be construed as a comment on my life to date. I’m signing off now, because the only remedy for this frightening self analysis is several hours in a saloon.

  • Kyle says:

    I think you’re wrong with regards to your sentiments about Marcus Davis. If his family is Irish, he is Irish, even if not 100%. Would you say the same thing about a Mexican American who claims to be Mexican? Just because having Irish blood is less visible than Mexican blood doesn’t mean it is any less legitimate. It’s not like hes claiming personlly hes from Ireland, he’s just honoring his heritage. Which believe it or not extends beyond American shores if you examine history.

  • Zack with a ck says:

    Among eurocaucasians, I think you find the “I’m Irish” and “I’m Italian” thing only among those two groups. You hardly see playaz roll up in the club with a Danish flag shirt or a tatoo of Liechenstein on their roided out ‘cep.

  • Cobra Kai says:

    #18, that was hilarious. South Whales in the house!!!!

  • Danial Sahn says:

    Hey Mikey how is your testicle?

  • Xander Crews says:

    You’re saying Marcus isn’t Irish? That he cant be proud of his heritage? He has every right to be. You honestly don’t think so? Let’s have a debate. I fucking dare you. Debate me.

  • Rob says:

    Hey Joe, do some research buddy. The name soccer originated in England. it was derived from the term “the football association”. Soccer became a nickname that was ultimately favoured by Americans but nonetheless originated in England

  • Rob is correct. I remember finding that out and using it to anger people yelling about the word.

    And #20 Kyle, there is nothing wrong with knowing where you came from. I know where I’m from and I have my family’s crest and shield.

    However if I’m fighting in Japan I think it’s a bit crude of me to come out to that country’s music, have their flag on my trunks, and have an offensive nickname they won’t even let me use when I fight there. It’s one thing to know and discuss your ancestry and it’s another to act like you were born there internationally.

    I’m sure it’s not popular opinion, namely because if Marcus Davis ever sees this and defends himself there would be 50 “OWNED” comments following it regardless of what it said. I have nothing against Marcus or him knowing his Irish heritage, it’s just the above things are a little over the top when you’re from Maine.

  • From an Irish persons point of few, Marcus Davis should stop acting that as if he is from Ireland. At the UFC in Northern Ireland he walked into the ring with a Union Jack flag. YES A UNION JACK FLAG. Far enough he can say he has some Irish blood in him but he should stop playing the IRISH card so much as any Irishman would prefer to cut off his left testicle then carry a union jack flag

  • Cobra Kai says:

    I like your articles more and more Huckaby. You are never afraid to say what you think, and I respect that. Also, when someone gives you crap you deal with it with class, unlike a certain other writer on this site who I won’t name for fear of being banned :)

  • Ram Maramba? I agree, that man is a tool.

  • Patrick says:

    To be honest… after the awesomefest that was UFC84… 85 was lackluster (however for the amount of terrible luck the show had… it wasn’t as bad as some people think).

  • Simco says:

    Since when is there an A button on a Mortal Kombat machine?

  • I was obviously referring to Sega. I don’t go to arcades. In fact I rarely leave my mother’s basement.

  • Vern says:

    When you do leave your mother’s basement please bring me my toothbrush.

  • Brian says:

    You didn’t go into much detail, but it should be pointed out that the child of an Irish citizen is, by definition, also an Irish citizen. If Marcus Davis’ mother or father were from Ireland, that would make him Irish. Maybe you should check that out. (Not that anyone should, because how a person decides to identify with their heritage is their own business.)

  • I will check it out. I’ve lessened on Davis, I agree with #18 about Huerta too. UFC is marketing them that way too.

    And I’ll also strongly listen to #30 about the flag. These things point more to being pushed than being what you say you are. Even if he’s technically Irish he does things that offend Irish people and make them angry due to not understanding the Irish.

  • HexRei says:

    If Davis really wants to convince me he’ll have to start doing his post-fight interviews in gaelic.

  • Vern says:

    Why is Kimbo ducking Pedro Stony Hands?

  • Adam Morgan says:

    Kimbo doesn’t want to feel the wrath of the Stony Hands. When you see a man headbutt another man when his eye is completely swollen shut, you tend to shy away from fighting him. 😉

  • LD says:

    Speaking on Irish Hand Grenade nickname – I have a lot of family in the Belfast area, and those of them that are clued up on MMA actually liked the nickname, they didnt feel it was particularly offensive. As a Welshman myself, im not particularly fond of him using his Celtic ancestory as a gimmick – until I see him fight in Cardiff, live on S4C, and do his interviews yn Gymraeg im not buying

  • StayDown says:

    Marcus Davis was told by the UFC to change his nickname and yet the Irish fans told him they loved it! Marcus is a class act and a solid fighter that is working hard to improve his game. I think you should show the guy some respect and leave his family out of the article.

    Marcus does use it as a gimmick, he loves his heritage and celebrates who is everyday!

    As for the Nate fight, Nate lost. He lost because he committed two illegal blows. One which was NOT the elbow but the pile driver he did. It is his fault he lost that decision and no one elses. Follow the rules or go back to Pancrase. As a proffesional he should have known the pile driver was illegal. The knee….could have been just bad timing and I understand that.

  • johnnyrev says:

    Mike, Super read …there is so much to hit on but my fav’s are the soccer/ football crap right off the bat. I like soccer but youare so right about those drunken hooligans across the pond ! Second Cecil P. worst official ever period end of story. Third blowtorch you just laid on sherdoggers is gonna sting for some time. Lastly hurry for you and your testies !

  • king mah mah says:

    The whole Marcus Davis Irish thing is not that big of a deal. It’s just like Halle Berry claiming to be the one opening doors for other black people winning oscars when she is not black! She is mixed, she is not black. But that certainly doesn’t mean that she cannot be proud that she is part black and celebrate that part of her ancestry.

  • Dan UK says:

    Gotta say the Football comment irked me a little, being a football and MMA fan is possible, but I was more annoyed about the booing comment, yeh, some people did boo and I agree it was wrong, but I was there and didn’t join in in the mindless booing (among with many others) so please don’t tar all us UK fans with the same brush.

  • Stephen says:

    Just a few points on Davis and the fans in the UK:

    1. I like Davis, I think he’s had some very exciting fights over the last year. I think Swick had a better gameplan than he did on Saturday which is why he lost.

    2. He’s got some Irish roots. Fair play to him. Let him try to brand himself as Irish to win some more fans. Why shouldn’t he? Everyones in it for themselves.

    3. The nickname was changed at 72 because of the recent troubles in N.I. Better to be safe than sorry, at least I would have thought on such a touchy subject.

    4. Remember that MMA is a relatively new sport over in UK and football/soccer (whatever you want to call it) has been there for a considerable amount of time. The way you say ‘lazily kick the ball for two hours’ could be the same ignorance that some fight fans in the UK view a ground game or a technical battle. Give it time.

  • LD says:

    agree with Dan – im a massive football fan, yet still an MMA fan, I hate the ignorant types who boo the ground work, but its more a case of these people need educating, rather than being written off as idiots – MMA has had nowhere near the exposure in the UK that it has over in the US – the major sports news network (Sky Sports News) doesnt carry anything on it whatsoever with regards to MMA, only one of the national daily newspapers covers MMA in any way at all in print, and the UFC PPVs are carried on a subscription sports channel without a particularly large number of subscribers at present – when MMA gets more into the mainstream media outlets, you’ll see a much more educated crowd

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